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wayoflife
12-14-2017, 05:15 PM
As some of you may know, the 2.0L Hurricane Turbo that comes on the all new Jeep JL Wrangler is considered to be a "mild hybrid" motor. In other words, it not only runs of gasoline, it also has a 48-Volt Lithium Ion Battery that it works off of too... kinda like a Prius. For those of you who haven't seen it, here's a shot of where the battery is located - basically, it sits about where the EVAP canister used to be mounted on a JK.

https://www.wayalife.com/photos/upload/2017/12/13/20171213115801-395a7e20.jpg

I have a feeling Rock Hard 4x4 will be making a lot of money selling skids for this especially being that it'll probably be pretty hard to relocate it.

What do you guys think of it?

TrainWreck618
12-14-2017, 05:17 PM
That's weird. Something else to worry about


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Gadget
12-14-2017, 05:18 PM
Probably very expensive to replace also.


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bigcale
12-14-2017, 05:21 PM
Wondering if there would be a way to use that 48 volts for something else, like a trail welder.

longarmwj
12-14-2017, 05:37 PM
Does this mean that I can park in the special parking places at the mall now?

Amrth
12-14-2017, 05:57 PM
Nicee.. That's a news for today!

Kind of curious why wouldn't OEM have better protection for it..

Sahara_Maverick
12-14-2017, 06:21 PM
How does it size compare to a Prius' or other typical hybrid? It does not look like it will have a long life but could help for city traffic mileage.

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jknikos
12-14-2017, 06:27 PM
Another thing to worry about...

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nmwranglerx
12-14-2017, 07:03 PM
As some of you may know, the 2.0L Hurricane Turbo that comes on the all new Jeep JL Wrangler is considered to be a "mild hybrid" motor. In other words, it not only runs of gasoline, it also has a 48-Volt Lithium Ion Battery that it works off of too... kinda like a Prius. For those of you who haven't seen it, here's a shot of where the battery is located - basically, it sits about where the EVAP canister used to be mounted on a JK.

https://www.wayalife.com/photos/upload/2017/12/13/20171213115801-395a7e20.jpg

I have a feeling Rock Hard 4x4 will be making a lot of money selling skids for this especially being that it'll probably be pretty hard to relocate it.

What do you guys think of it?

Seems like an odd location for it from an off-road standpoint. I wonder if the jeep would run if it got knocked off somehow.


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Brute
12-14-2017, 07:06 PM
Disappointing...now we can't make Prius jokes anymore...

Warebear
12-14-2017, 07:10 PM
Is the gas motor dependent on the battery?


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Jsouder53
12-14-2017, 07:33 PM
Just something else to replace after 100,000 miles....


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Sahara_Maverick
12-14-2017, 09:07 PM
Seems like an odd location for it from an off-road standpoint. I wonder if the jeep would run if it got knocked off somehow.


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Considering how Lithium batteries are very sensitive to punctures and hard impacts that break their linings, it's better be very well armored for the folks taking those Jeeps to the trails. I guess everyone remembers them bursting in flames in airports and if I am not mistaken Tesla also had some flaming problems in accidents.


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Mcollins443
12-14-2017, 09:49 PM
I would also worry about it getting wet when crossing through water. Iím sure itís fine with being sprayed from wet roads but it might not handle being submerged very well.


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RCVRY
12-14-2017, 10:32 PM
Considering how Lithium batteries are very sensitive to punctures and hard impacts that break their linings, it's better be very well armored for the folks taking those Jeeps to the trails. I guess everyone remembers them bursting in flames in airports and if I am not mistaken Tesla also had some flaming problems in accidents.


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In which case it would become a seat warmer.

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RCVRY
12-14-2017, 10:35 PM
Does this mean that I can park in the special parking places at the mall now?
286110

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mrob907
12-15-2017, 01:03 AM
As some of you may know, the 2.0L Hurricane Turbo that comes on the all new Jeep JL Wrangler is considered to be a "mild hybrid" motor. In other words, it not only runs of gasoline, it also has a 48-Volt Lithium Ion Battery that it works off of too... kinda like a Prius. For those of you who haven't seen it, here's a shot of where the battery is located - basically, it sits about where the EVAP canister used to be mounted on a JK.

https://www.wayalife.com/photos/upload/2017/12/13/20171213115801-395a7e20.jpg

I have a feeling Rock Hard 4x4 will be making a lot of money selling skids for this especially being that it'll probably be pretty hard to relocate it.

What do you guys think of it?I have some issues about the turbo providing very good off road performance anyway being that most turbos require you be at higher RPMs before they kick in, I wouldn't think anybody buying this engine is going to be running large tires because the majority of their on road travel will be pretty power sapped in that lower RPM range. That being said I also doubt they will be going off-road much.

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Gunslinger
12-15-2017, 02:03 AM
From what I understand the alternator/starter will provide additional torque to the drivetrain when pulling away from a stop. Instant torque on demand assisting the engine until it builds some rpm. I see battery mods in the future.

wayoflife
12-15-2017, 02:06 AM
From what I understand the alternator/starter will provide additional torque to the drivetrain when pulling away from a stop. Instant torque on demand assisting the engine until it builds some rpm. I see battery mods in the future.

This was just posted on JLWRANGLER.com by someone who knows this system well...

"The way the system works is it replaces the alternator with a motor generator unit. It is a large genset connected directly to the crank pulley with a large belt. It either acts as a motor to provide additional crankshaft hp (if battery is charged) or runs off the crank to charge the battery during regen braking, coast down etc. Another large benefit is it can provide additional torque in cases where needed. Think about say while a turbocharged engine is building boost, the etorque system can provide the extra torque to the crank until engine reaches peak. All seemlessly. It works quite well, even offroad."

— 13_gecko_rubi

sm31
12-15-2017, 02:10 AM
This is really interesting! I wonder how the weight compares...

Tanktitan
12-15-2017, 02:41 AM
What exactly does the battery run? It is a gasoline engine. Surely there are not electric motors. My understanding of a mild hybrid is that this is the name for the auto stop/start feature.

mrob907
12-15-2017, 02:42 AM
What exactly does the battery run? It is a gasoline engine. Surely there are not electric motors. My understanding of a mild hybrid is that this is the name for the auto stop/start feature.Ah. That might be true because I know there was discussion of doing that to help fuel efficiency

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Tanktitan
12-15-2017, 02:53 AM
This was just posted on JLWRANGLER.com by someone who knows this system well...

"The way the system works is it replaces the alternator with a motor generator unit. It is a large genset connected directly to the crank pulley with a large belt. It either acts as a motor to provide additional crankshaft hp (if battery is charged) or runs off the crank to charge the battery during regen braking, coast down etc. Another large benefit is it can provide additional torque in cases where needed. Think about say while a turbocharged engine is building boost, the etorque system can provide the extra torque to the crank until engine reaches peak. All seemlessly. It works quite well, even offroad."

ó 13_gecko_rubi

Interesting. A motor/generator. I would love to drive it in 4Low and compare it with a 3.6.


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13_gecko_rubi
12-15-2017, 02:57 AM
I have some issues about the turbo providing very good off road performance anyway being that most turbos require you be at higher RPMs before they kick in, I wouldn't think anybody buying this engine is going to be running large tires because the majority of their on road travel will be pretty power sapped in that lower RPM range. That being said I also doubt they will be going off-road much.

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Having driven both last week this is far from true.

The etorque system provides additional torque at low rpm but even then the turbo build boost early. Locked into 1st gear in a rubicon 4 door I was driving over boulders with the brakes at idle! 4.71:1 first, 4:1 tcase and 4.10 gears, tons of torque multiplication. Many of the folks on the media drive didnít realize they were in the 4 til they popped hood. It is impressive.


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13_gecko_rubi
12-15-2017, 02:58 AM
From what I understand the alternator/starter will provide additional torque to the drivetrain when pulling away from a stop. Instant torque on demand assisting the engine until it builds some rpm. I see battery mods in the future.

Ya that is completely correct. There is no alternator or starter though. There is a motor generator unit that replaces both located on front of engine.


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mrob907
12-15-2017, 03:00 AM
Having driven both last week this is far from true.

The etorque system provides additional torque at low rpm but even then the turbo build boost early. Locked into 1st gear in a rubicon 4 door I was driving over boulders with the brakes at idle! 4.71:1 first, 4:1 tcase and 4.10 gears, tons of torque multiplication. Many of the folks on the media drive didnít realize they were in the 4 til they popped hood. It is impressive.


Sent from my iPad using WAYALIFE mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=73415)Very well then

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13_gecko_rubi
12-15-2017, 03:01 AM
What exactly does the battery run? It is a gasoline engine. Surely there are not electric motors. My understanding of a mild hybrid is that this is the name for the auto stop/start feature.

The battery spins the motor generator unit that is connected to the crank pulley. Basically it spins the engine to start it but also to provide torque to the drivetrain rather than burning fuel. It does regen braking as well. The start stop portion of it is far superior to starter based systems. As it s starting the engine by spinning crank it is also propelling the vehicle.


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13_gecko_rubi
12-15-2017, 03:07 AM
Interesting. A motor/generator. I would love to drive it in 4Low and compare it with a 3.6.


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With the 8 speed either one is amazing. On road you notice the increased torque of the turbo 4 in passing type acceleration say 40-70 etc. I didnít notice any hesitation/lag on takeoffs from start. Again a lot of this is due to the gearing. You now have a lower first, lower final drive ratio and higher top gear. So u get harder launches due to lower 1st and lower axle gear ratio yet lower rpm on why due to the super high 2nd OD. The 3.6 feels much peppier than what is in the JK despite pretty same the same ratings. The gen 2 3.6 did add dual stage valve lift so it brings the peak torque in lower in the engine rpm. But ratings havenít changed. Itís the transmission that is just great. The new manual is nice too as it now has a 5.13:1 first. But 6 speeds are so 2016... lol


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Tanktitan
12-15-2017, 03:17 AM
The battery spins the motor generator unit that is connected to the crank pulley. Basically it spins the engine to start it but also to provide torque to the drivetrain rather than burning fuel. It does regen braking as well. The start stop portion of it is far superior to starter based systems. As it s starting the engine by spinning crank it is also propelling the vehicle.


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Very impressive. Frankly I am amazed at how many true enhancements they have built into the JL. Tons of little things and big ones. Impressive.


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scrhino
12-15-2017, 03:37 AM
Itís going to be interesting to see the gear ratio charts that will come out. With a 4.71 first gear, 4:1 transfer case, you might could stay in a 4.1 with 37s and get both good off and on road performance.

mrob907
12-15-2017, 03:44 AM
With the 8 speed either one is amazing. On road you notice the increased torque of the turbo 4 in passing type acceleration say 40-70 etc. I didnít notice any hesitation/lag on takeoffs from start. Again a lot of this is due to the gearing. You now have a lower first, lower final drive ratio and higher top gear. So u get harder launches due to lower 1st and lower axle gear ratio yet lower rpm on why due to the super high 2nd OD. The 3.6 feels much peppier than what is in the JK despite pretty same the same ratings. The gen 2 3.6 did add dual stage valve lift so it brings the peak torque in lower in the engine rpm. But ratings havenít changed. Itís the transmission that is just great. The new manual is nice too as it now has a 5.13:1 first. But 6 speeds are so 2016... lol


Sent from my iPad using WAYALIFE mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=73415)I'm excited to see them in the flesh (so to speak)

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NightStalker
12-15-2017, 04:05 AM
Disappointing...now we can't make Prius jokes anymore...

Relax brother--like the battery was the only reason everyone makes fun of the PrEYEus.

scrhino
12-15-2017, 04:09 AM
Itís going to be interesting to see the gear ratio charts that will come out. With a 4.71 first gear, 4:1 transfer case, you might could stay in a 4.1 with 37s and get both good off and on road performance.

With the above setup you have a crawl ratio of 77. With the current jk running a 3.59 1st gear,4:1 transfer case and 5.38 gears you get the same 77 crawl ratio with the added benefit of running lower rpms on the hwy with the JL.

notnalc68
12-15-2017, 04:43 AM
You fellas should really check out www.jlwrangler.com


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dillard09
12-15-2017, 11:12 AM
Thanks for all info Scott! It's going to be awesome to have options when buying a JL.
So what's that turbo 4 going to be like when you put 60s and 40s? Will you need 5.38 or could you get away with something like 5.13 or even 4.88? Interested to see what the future brings.

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Flow
12-15-2017, 11:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZZwLWPekp0

TheGrendel
12-15-2017, 01:40 PM
damn. that 0-60 time is impressive.

Linebacker
12-15-2017, 02:03 PM
I really didn't think I might be in the market to trade my 2012, especially for a small displacement 4 lunger. Oh, shit!

trailraider
12-15-2017, 02:55 PM
this is a long read sorry. this description/operation listing from FCA

"The eTorque system automatically stops and starts the engine when certain conditions are met to improve fuel economy and lower Carbon Dioxide (CO2) emissions. The eTorque enable and disable selection switch is integral to the ICS.

The Battery, Starting, and Charging systems operate in conjunction with one another, and must be tested as a complete system. For correct operation of starting/charging systems, all components used in these 3 systems must perform within specifications. When attempting to diagnose any of these systems, it is important that you keep their interdependency in mind.

Certain starting system components and functions of the eTorque system are On Board Diagnostics (OBDII) monitored and will produce Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC). The use of the diagnostic scan tool is not only recommended, but it is necessary for proper diagnosing of the eTorque system and the components or systems that are related to eTorque system functions. Review the component and system information listed below in the operation section for diagnostic information. Otherwise, review the wiring diagram application as well as section 28 DTC diagnostics service information located in TechCONNECT.

The E-Torque system uses a high torque electric 48 Volt motor to function as a starter for Electric Start/Stop. The E-Torque system when active will shut the engine off with a signal from the PCM when the vehicle is stopped, and then start the engine when there is a demand for power. The E-Torque system on this vehicle utilizes a contained cooling system between the MGU and the Power Pack Unit (PPU), for more information on the cooling system for the E-Torque system(Refer to 07 - Cooling/Standard Procedure) .

The vehicles first engine crank event is managed by the driver acting on the ignition state and requesting an engine crank request. When this request occurs, the BCM cranking relay is opened and the PCM cranking relay is closed. When the engine is ON and the engine cranking phase has ended, the PCM cranking relay will now be opened and the BCM cranking relay will now be closed. All of the next automatic eTorque cranking events managed in the same Key-On ignition cycle are performed maintaining the BCM cranking relay closed and setting closed the PCM cranking relay. Each time an eTorque cranking event occurs which causes the engine to come on again, the PCM cranking relay is opened.

For vehicles equipped with an Automatic Transmissions (ATX), the restart procedure for the TCM is performed when the PCM requests an eTorque auto start event to occur, the PCM sends a request to start” message to the TCM. The TCM will then engage the neutral gear to avoid vehicle movement in case of a TCM module reset event during the engine cranking stage of the eTorque event. The TCM sends a signal to the PCM advising the PCM that the transmission is ready for the eTorque event to occur.

For vehicles equipped with a Manual Transmission (MTX), the PCM will initiate the eTorque start event with a short press of the clutch pedal when the MTX is in neutral. The PCM will allow an eTorque autostart event to occur while in a ranged gear if the clutch pedal travel goes past the interlock position. Otherwise the PCM will trigger an IPC display message to alert the driver to either press the clutch in or shift the transmission into neutral.

• Auto Start-Stop management
• Torque management with Torque smoothing and power assist
• Regenerative Braking
• 48V System Power Management
◾ Monitor and report 48V battery cell voltage, current and temperature and battery pack info
◾ Convert AC from the E-Machine (generator) to DC for storage in 48V battery

• Motor Control
• 12V System Power Management
◾ Convert 48V DC to LV DC to provide vehicle accessory power and charge the 12V battery

• Thermal Management
◾ Cool the E-Machine, Inverter, Battery, and DC-DC Converter

• HMI Updates
• The 48V-MGU is electrically connected to:
• The 48V power distribution network (48VB+ and 48VB-), composed of at least by a 48V Battery System
• The 12V standard boardnet for power supply (positive and ground)
• The vehicle network for information exchange via serial communication line (CAN)

The PPU is a 48V battery pack that will supply voltage for the eTorque system to start the engine during stop/start event. The high voltage battery can also supply voltage to the 12V system when needed. The PPU on the vehicle is liquid cooled on the 2.0L equipped eTorque system, for more information on the cooling system for the e-Torque system (Refer to 07 - Cooling/Description and Operation) .

The PPU has a 12V and 48V connection to it to allow for the charging of the two different voltages. The PPU contains the Battery Pack Control Module (BPCM) and is replaced as part of the PPU (Refer to 08 - Electrical/eTorque System/UNIT, Power Pack (PPU) /Removal and Installation)."


EDIT : battery price is just shy of $2600.00 in Canada. not sure what price would be south o the border.

scrhino
12-15-2017, 03:33 PM
Thanks for all info Scott! It's going to be awesome to have options when buying a JL.
So what's that turbo 4 going to be like when you put 60s and 40s? Will you need 5.38 or could you get away with something like 5.13 or even 4.88? Interested to see what the future brings.

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Running 60s and 40s, I think you may get away with 4.56s if you get the diesel option. If you get the rubi case, you will have a crawl ratio of 85 and can cruise on the hwy at 70 in 8th gear turning 1800 rpms. If you get the v6 you may have to keep it in sixth gear on the hwy.

Warrior's Lance
12-15-2017, 05:09 PM
Is this package used on any other FCA vehicle? or is this a new deal for the company?


Watching from the sidelines.....

Lance

trailraider
12-15-2017, 05:28 PM
Is this package used on any other FCA vehicle? or is this a new deal for the company?


Watching from the sidelines.....

Lance

I haven't seen anything like this system used.

wayoflife
12-15-2017, 05:29 PM
Is this package used on any other FCA vehicle? or is this a new deal for the company?


Watching from the sidelines.....

Lance

The 2.0L Hurricane Turbo is all new. The overall system is like nothing I have seen before.

scrhino
12-15-2017, 05:48 PM
From the few videos I've watched, they all seem to say either engine is fine, but the real winner is the 8speed trans.

onetraveller
12-15-2017, 09:41 PM
The concept isn't new, but this is the first major manufacturer I've seen use it. It's sounds very similar to this system that was showcased at SEMA in 2016.

http://www.enginelabs.com/news/sema-2016-e-charger-bolt-on-hybrid-system-draws-crowds/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=sema-2016-e-charger-bolt-on-hybrid-system-draws-crowds

https://echargersystem.com

I was considering putting one in my pickup to see if it'll improve the mileage much.

Mike

Warrior's Lance
12-16-2017, 09:08 PM
I haven't seen anything like this system used.


The 2.0L Hurricane Turbo is all new. The overall system is like nothing I have seen before.


The concept isn't new, but this is the first major manufacturer I've seen use it. It's sounds very similar to this system that was showcased at SEMA in 2016.

http://www.enginelabs.com/news/sema-2016-e-charger-bolt-on-hybrid-system-draws-crowds/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=sema-2016-e-charger-bolt-on-hybrid-system-draws-crowds

https://echargersystem.com

I was considering putting one in my pickup to see if it'll improve the mileage much.

Mike

Ah, well, might let some other guinea pigs test it out for a few years first then!

Thanks

Lance

Gunslinger
12-17-2017, 01:27 PM
People may scoff but the mild hybrids are begging for mods and the Prius broís will show the way. Software, battery, motor even the ratio of the pulleys. I see mods in the future.

13_gecko_rubi
12-17-2017, 02:57 PM
Thanks for all info Scott! It's going to be awesome to have options when buying a JL.
So what's that turbo 4 going to be like when you put 60s and 40s? Will you need 5.38 or could you get away with something like 5.13 or even 4.88? Interested to see what the future brings.

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That's what we are going to have to see. In theory the engine is a torque source. So if properly geared should make no difference. As far as gearing I thinknyoull actually want to stay higher nunerically. The base gearing went from a 3.21 to a 3.45. Because 8th gear is so low. In a 12+ auto 5th is like .85. In the 8 speed 8th is .67. So with both trans running same tires, say 40s, and gearing of say 5.38, you'll have lower hwy rpm but rediculous low end takeoff due to the low 1st gearing.

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13_gecko_rubi
12-17-2017, 03:05 PM
The 2.0L Hurricane Turbo is all new. The overall system is like nothing I have seen before.
It is the first application in the FCA portfolio. Other manufacturers have been using similar systems for several years now and almost all manufacturers will have them within the next year or two.

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Moochie
12-17-2017, 03:52 PM
It is the first application in the FCA portfolio. Other manufacturers have been using similar systems for several years now and almost all manufacturers will have them within the next year or two.

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I see that the 2019 Cherokee will be getting this as an engine option also.