Tramlining or Wandering on 35's

Hi All, New to the board - first post!
I've searched, and still have some questions.

Background:

The wife and I each have a JK. Mine is a 14' Willys Wheeler, 6mt, 3.73's, tow package. Hers is a 14' Rubicon, 5AT, 4.10's.
I'm in the commercial transport industry, with a mechanical background and motorcycle certified.. I'm handy.

At time of delivery, both received 1.5" hub centric spacers, 3/4" Daystar front poly puck and 285/70/17 (32.8") GY Duratracs.
We choose the Duratrac for their superb ice and compact snow traction in an all terrain tire.

Driveability was great, and we put 8,000 km on these setups each with no drivability issues. Tire pressure was always factory recommended at 37 psi. We obviously air WAY down when off road, the 37 psi was purely for highway MPG.

I wanted a bit of a lift on my Willys, as I was tired of dragging belly.
I went up to 2" poly spacers in the front, and moved the 3/4 spacer to the rear.
I added a Rubicon sway bar disconnect, with an EVO mfg hand control.
Made brake line drop brackets, bought a set of rear sway bar end links for the front, added Rancho 7000mt shocks - which are awesome by the way.
NO alignment (nothing can be done), centred the wheel by the drag link.
Still running stock wheels.

Drove it this way for another 4,000 km. Still excellent. Smooth, great highway manners, and lots of flex off road now compared to stock. Still 37 psi.
We don't wheel hard, mostly highway, FSR and the odd light trail drive which requires the disconnects.


Our issues:

Our city is Jeep crazy, there will be 4 JK's on one block at any time. It's wild really.
Decided this spring that we wanted to jump to 35's on both Jeeps. For the visual aspect, but also for the off road capability.

Started with Rough Country stubby end caps, I trimmed my flares, she wanted Bushwackers.
Trimmed rock rails, Smittybilt rear HD Tire carrier on both.

At this time we decided to give hers the same lift as mine, as it is super comfortable and retains OE components being that they are so new.
2" poly spacer up front, 3/4 in the rear. Rancho 7000mt shocks. Brake line drops, etc. Everything needed to work well.

Had 315/70/17 (34.4") Duratracs installed on my Willys, and her Rubicon.
We continued with stock wheels, as we both love the look.

I run 34 psi. Smooth. Straight. Only pulls slightly in DEEP ruts under braking coming up to a stop light.
In hers, we tried 34 psi… It's everywhere at highway speed. On a 40 minute highway drive, i'm so tired from steering!!!
Tried lower PSI, it was no better.
Came up to 37 psi and it actually got better.
Checked our toe, and it's around 1/16th in.

I've checked all fasteners, everything is tight.
Both Jeeps are set up identically suspension wise.
We're confused, and she does not want to drive it.
Won't drive my Manual Willys.
It ONLY does it at highway speed…..

As stupid as it sounds, I am actually thinking the BW flares messed up something with the aerodynamics - making it super flighty/wandering/tramlining.

Thoughts????
Steering box? Worn balljoints? Tie rod ends? Everything feels like stock still - tight and new.

Thanks all.

Craig from Canada

Welcome to wayalife! Sounds like you may need some caster adjustment in the front axle, maybe check that :thumb:

Panda said:

Welcome to wayalife! Sounds like you may need some caster adjustment in the front axle, maybe check that :thumb:

Click to expand...

Thanks!

But why one Jeep, and not the other???

Welcome! Ad Panda mentioned, checking your caster would be a great starting point.

Also, when you installed the lift, did you loosen all control arm and track bar bolt first? Then tighten them up once the Jeep was sitting on all four wheels at its new ride hight? It is possible to have a bushing or two preloaded that is trying to twist a control arm back towards its stock position.

Good luck!

cstishenko said:

Thanks!

But why one Jeep, and not the other???

Click to expand...

Are they both 2 doors? Did you measure exact lift height? Are they the same? Sometimes these things can vary from jk to jk

Panda said:

Are they both 2 doors? Did you measure exact lift height? Are they the same? Sometimes these things can vary from jk to jk

Click to expand...

Both Unlimited models, both ride heights are within 1/4" measuring ground to OEM Rubicon rock rail (same on both).
Both have the same springs, verified by the tag.

When doing the suspension work on both Jeeps, neither had a control arm loosened or tightened.

I'm going to try the suggested loosening of the bolts and re torquing under vehicle weight…. Given that they are 2" higher in the front, this bushing twisting COULD have something to do with it.

That and the other thing i'm not sure of, is whether the brake rotor star washers were removed before the spacers went on (tire shop put spacers on.)


I did a quick net search, and it looks as though many guys on the 315/70/17 Duratracs are having this issue. Those same guys all had BW flat fares.
I'm wondering if it has something to do with the tread pattern, in that width…. Combined with the Aero change of the BW flats…. hum.



Thanks for the suggestions, will post back after i've put in some work today. :crazyeyes:

best explanation about factory control arms bushings, track bar and why you should loosen them during installing lifts.
https://youtu.be/OOZ9v2M-Iz0

olram30 said:

best explanation about factory control arms bushings, track bar and why you should loosen them during installing lifts.
https://youtu.be/OOZ9v2M-Iz0

Click to expand...

I've always assumed that's how factory bushings worked, but that video is a perfect visual explanation!

Thanks for sharing!

olram30 said:

best explanation about factory control arms bushings, track bar and why you should loosen them during installing lifts.
https://youtu.be/OOZ9v2M-Iz0

Click to expand...

I knew this was something you were supposed to do, but I didn't really know why. That explains it very well! Thank you for posting!

Thanks all for the help!


Loosened and tightened all control arms on the ground.
Brought the toe in to appx 1/8th from 1/16th.
Brought the tires BACK down to 34 psi - as thats what works well on mine.

Straight as an arrow now.


Side note with tire pressure:

Tried the tires at 30 psi, still wandered a lot. Along with wandering was extremely sluggish.
At 37psi, wandered more than at 30 - but gained our peppiness back.

I'm thinking the Duratrac, pulled down onto the stock Rubicon wheels - coupled with it's soft sidewalls…
Wanders at 30, due to lack of carcass strength. Wanders at 37 because pressure is simply too high, rounding out the contact patch.

We might have just found the magic number at 34.


I'm officially out of the doghouse. phew.

Woo hoo! Nicely done!

Glad there was a happy ending.

cstishenko said:

Thanks all for the help!
I'm officially out of the doghouse. phew.

Click to expand...

Resurrecting an old thread.......
........ I'm back in the doghouse. BIGTIME.

We badly need some help!


Hers is still tramlining. Mine is tramlining. My Co-workers JKU is tramlining.
We all have a similar setup.
The tramlining is a constant steering wheel fight at 60 mph. It will grab any rut in the road, and change lanes at will.
I was inches from sideswiping a Honda Civic the other night!


I thought that what I did fixed the issue.. it got better, but is still not very good.
I thought that mine was great, because I never drive on the highway.
My coworker thought his was great until his last road trip where he nearly died, from it hunting so bad and nearly hitting the ditch.

As a refresher - these are our setups as of current, and (in brackets) steps we've taken to remedy the problem.

Mine:
2014 Willys Unlimited / 6 Manual / 3.73's
1.75" Front Daystar Pucks / .75" Rear Daystar Pucks / Rancho 7000MT shocks
Rubicon Swaybar Disco w/EVO hand control / Long brakelines
All suspension torqued under vehicle weight
Spidertrax 1.5" spacers / 315/70/17 GY Duratrac tires / Willys (rubicon) Wheels
Cut Fenders/ Stubby Front Bumper
34 PSI
(Have been all over the map with tire pressure)

Wifes:
2014 Rubicon Unlimited / 5 Auto / 4.10's
1.75" Front Daystar Pucks / .75" Rear Daystar Pucks / Rancho 7000MT shocks
Rear swaybar link in the front / Long brakelines
Spidertrax 1.5" spacers / 315/70/17 GY Duratrac tires / Rubicon Wheels
Bushwacker flats/ Stubby Front Bumper / Winch on framerails
34 PSI
(Took Daystar pucks out of rear, no help. Took out of front, bringing vehicle back to 100% stock. No Help)
(Have been all over the map with tire pressure)
(Torqued all suspension under vehicle weight)

CoWorkers:
2014 RubiconX Unlimited / 6 Manual / 4.10's
AEV Dualsport XT 2.5" lift w/ Springs/ 5100's/ Geo correction brackets/ a proper lift.
All suspension torqued under vehicle weight / AEV's alignment specs
Spidertrax 1.5" spacers / 315/70/17 GY Duratrac tires / Rubicon Wheels
Stock Fenders / Mopar 10thav Bumpers/ AEV Tire carrier
36PSI
(No attempted remedy yet)


The only common denominator I can find - is that we are all on OEM wheels.
Possibly the lack of wheel width - coupled with the 315 tire is causing the hunt?


I'd like to hear some opinions.... Please read our setups, and remedies taken before commenting.

All 3 on the same Duratracs? Id consider looking into swapping tires with someone for an hour to rule those out.

I put 35s on my 2 door a couple months ago. I have stock suspension with the rugged ridge Hurricane fenders (they are wide and catch a lot of air). My first road trip I was having the same problems you are describing. It was horrible. I had a couple of the near miss side swiping episodes (which scared the crap out of me). I took it to my local shop and they doubled checked everything to make sure the suspension was tight and the wheel spacers hadn't loosened up any. All was good. They suggested balancing the tires (which a different shop had done only a few days prior). Something had to be done, I couldn't drive it like it was. I was skeptical but said ok and after the tires were balanced (correctly) my problem was gone.

Hayman_6735 said:

They suggested balancing the tires (which a different shop had done only a few days prior). Something had to be done, I couldn't drive it like it was. I was skeptical but said ok and after the tires were balanced (correctly) my problem was gone.

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I'm glad someone else has had the same issue as us… Not glad it happened to you, but I feel less unique.
I don't understand how a simple balance could have fixed your issue though?? Have you been on a rutted highway since? I honestly cannot understand how a re-balance would do this….. As we have 3 Jeeps with this issue, there is no way 3 are out of balance.


As for the comment about swapping to someone else's 35's… I would have a hard time finding someone with a set of 35's on stock wheels locally.
It did not do this on 285/70/17's, at all.


:crazyeyes: I'm thinking it has something to do with the wide tires being pulled down onto the narrow wheels.
I'm unsure about buying a set of wheels on a hunch though.

depends on how they were balanced, if they used the clip on weights they tend to fall off easily so stick-on are better.

Does the tire shop use a road-force machine to spin balance? Road-force are more accurate as they can spin that tire up to speed to get an accurate balance.

Also check your caster angle, I wouldn't think a 2" puck would not make that much of a difference but worthwhile to check it. This will help:

http://project-jk.com/jeep-jk-tech/...o-i-measure-it-and-how-does-it-affect-my-jeep

jeeeep said:

depends on how they were balanced, if they used the clip on weights they tend to fall off easily so stick-on are better.

Does the tire shop use a road-force machine to spin balance? Road-force are more accurate as they can spin that tire up to speed to get an accurate balance.

Also check your caster angle, I wouldn't think a 2" puck would not make that much of a difference but worthwhile to check it. This will help:

http://project-jk.com/jeep-jk-tech/...o-i-measure-it-and-how-does-it-affect-my-jeep

Click to expand...

Hunter Roadforced all tires with sticky weights on inside of wheels.

Puck was in one Jeep, then removed. The one Rubicon is back at 100% stock.

Alignment was said to be proper.

I didn't think balancing the tires was gonna work but it made all the difference. Driving on rutted roads now, I can feel contour of the road and the jeep will pull to one side or the other depending on the rut but it is nothing like the lane changing guessing game that is was before they were balanced correctly.

Did all 3 jeeps use the same shop to balance the tires?

As for the comment about swapping to someone else's 35's… I would have a hard time finding someone with a set of 35's on stock wheels locally.
It did not do this on 285/70/17's, at all

Wouldn't need to be 35's to test run to verify its not steering or suspension related. You indicated it didn't do it on the 285's, so lets see....what changed?