jedg
New member
Got it. Thanks a bunch! Still waiting for MoTech to finish with it. I may ask if they would correct this for me since it's there right now.
Front Dana 44 housing fail
- Thread starter tpietzsch
- Start date
Got it. Thanks a bunch! Still waiting for MoTech to finish with it. I may ask if they would correct this for me since it's there right now.
JayKay
Caught the Bug
Not arguing your comment in any way Eddie, but correct me if I'm wrong. Caster can be adjusted with adjustable ball joints, but in turn, camber will be affected. So adjustable ball joints should only truly be used to adjust camber not caster. The only reason you SHOULD use them to adjust camber is if your C's are bent. Which if that's the case, you'd have bigger problems.
I am sorry but on a solid axle, ball joints will not be able to adjust caster - only camber. Caster is set by rotating the pinion down for a greater positive setting and vice versa. Cam bolts or adjustable control arms are the only way you can adjust caster. Adjustable ball joints are only capable of adjust camber.
JayKay
Caught the Bug
Ok, I've never installed a set of adjustable ball joints, I thought they spun 360 degrees. I know on Ford 3/4-1 ton trucks with straight axles, you can install a set of cam bushings that do spin 360 degrees which allow you to adjust both camber and caster, you just have to find a happy medium not to favor one too much more than the other. I just thought adjustable ball joints worked the same. Learned something new
2007blackJk
Member
I know one guy who used adjustable ball joints for caster.
Ok, I've never installed a set of adjustable ball joints, I thought they spun 360 degrees. I know on Ford 3/4-1 ton trucks with straight axles, you can install a set of cam bushings that do spin 360 degrees which allow you to adjust both camber and caster, you just have to find a happy medium not to favor one too much more than the other. I just thought adjustable ball joints worked the same. Learned something new
Yeah, that's about how the adjustable ball joints work and I suppose you could get them to adjust for a bit of caster as well so long as you do find a happy medium but on a Jeep, there really is no sense in trying to do it this way. For one, most adjustable ball joints only allow for about a degree of correction and for two, adjustable control arms do a much better job and is a lot easier. Ideally, adjustable front lower arms are used to set your axle position and then adjustable uppers set caster.
Seems like a lot of work for very little adjustment. But hey, to each their own.
JayKay
Caught the Bug
Yeah, I suppose you wouldn't gain much caster/camber from adjustable ball joints and the amount of caster you would need to adjust after going from say, stock to 4" of lift would certainly be easier achieved with adjustable control arms and definitely a faster process. Sorry to get off topic...back to the OP
2007blackJk
Member
Yes but with the stock housing caster takes a back seat to pinion with 4+
So let's say the jeep has 4" of lift and 1* caster angle. 1-1.5 maybe the max running a aftermarket driveshaft.
I see a lot of guys running 3/3 or even 2/4 to limit DS vibes. A huge benefit with a Prorock housing is increased caster/pinion separation. 10-11* I believe over the stock 6*
So let's say the jeep has 4" of lift and 1* caster angle. 1-1.5 maybe the max running a aftermarket driveshaft.
I see a lot of guys running 3/3 or even 2/4 to limit DS vibes. A huge benefit with a Prorock housing is increased caster/pinion separation. 10-11* I believe over the stock 6*
JayKay
Caught the Bug
I don't know, I've never gone that far in depth with alignment angles on a JK. The only one I really know about is my own and I'm running fixed lower control arms that came with my 3.5" lift, so it theoretically has stock caster. Running a stock driveshaft (with an aftermarket shaft, that may be a different story, I don't know) I have no vibrations, so it works for me. I guess I need to think more about my caster alignment when it comes to me switching axles, springs, and control arms in the future.
I can see that installing adjustable ball joints to achieve more/less caster may be needed in some cases as you stated.
Really? "A lot of guys"? I can't think of a single person I know who feels the need to do that. If there really are a lot of guys running less than +4° of caster to limit drive line vibes, they really need to have their drive shaft rebalanced. I personally would not run less than +4° as anything less really compromises your handling. Of course, that's just me.
As far as ProRocks go, yup, you're absolutely right, the +6° that they have built into them is definitely a bonus and yet another reason why I always recommend them.
2007blackJk
Member
Can't say I agree with it, but I do see it. You're right, often re-balancing the driveshaft is mentioned. Most eventually suck it up and go Prorock. Or how about the few that run without a front DS on road with 6* caster angle ? Lol
jedg
New member
This was starting to get confusing to me. (admittedly, that's not hard to do)... I decided to try to find some of the answers on my own. The below is taken from this link: http://www.dynatrac.com/pdfs/Choosing_the_right_housing_revC.pdf
I gathered from the article is that the ProRock 44 is a much stronger version of the stock Rubicon Dana 44 and is recommended for 2.5" and lower lifts. Lifts with 3" or more should use the ProRock 44 Unlimited.
Maybe this is old news for the veteran JK'ers; I hope it helps the novices like me that may be looking for the 'Caster for Dummies' version.
BEGIN
The stock Dana 44 Rubicon and standard ProRock 44 axle housing come from the factory with
6 degrees of angular separation between the caster axis and the pinion axis. When installed in the stock
position the caster is configured at 4 degrees with the pinion up 2 degrees. This is the way the standard
ProRock 44 is configured to replace a stock axle. The ProRock 44 Unlimited housing has 10 degrees
of separation between the pinion and caster axises. This allows the end user to run between 6 and 8
degrees caster with a pinion angle between 2 and 4 degrees pointed up.
The increased caster helps with vehicle handling and steering. It also allows more flexibility
with respect to the pinion angle in order to eliminate unwanted driveshaft vibrations. This axle housing
is particularly well suited to JKs with 3 or more inches of lift and adjustable control arms. While it can
be used with less lift it may be difficult to install on some lift kits with 2.5” or less lift. This is because
these smaller lifts generally do not come with adjustable control arms. In order to install the modified
caster axle adjustable control arms will be necessary.
END
I gathered from the article is that the ProRock 44 is a much stronger version of the stock Rubicon Dana 44 and is recommended for 2.5" and lower lifts. Lifts with 3" or more should use the ProRock 44 Unlimited.
Maybe this is old news for the veteran JK'ers; I hope it helps the novices like me that may be looking for the 'Caster for Dummies' version.
BEGIN
The stock Dana 44 Rubicon and standard ProRock 44 axle housing come from the factory with
6 degrees of angular separation between the caster axis and the pinion axis. When installed in the stock
position the caster is configured at 4 degrees with the pinion up 2 degrees. This is the way the standard
ProRock 44 is configured to replace a stock axle. The ProRock 44 Unlimited housing has 10 degrees
of separation between the pinion and caster axises. This allows the end user to run between 6 and 8
degrees caster with a pinion angle between 2 and 4 degrees pointed up.
The increased caster helps with vehicle handling and steering. It also allows more flexibility
with respect to the pinion angle in order to eliminate unwanted driveshaft vibrations. This axle housing
is particularly well suited to JKs with 3 or more inches of lift and adjustable control arms. While it can
be used with less lift it may be difficult to install on some lift kits with 2.5” or less lift. This is because
these smaller lifts generally do not come with adjustable control arms. In order to install the modified
caster axle adjustable control arms will be necessary.
END
The factory Dana 44 is just a Dana 30 with a 44 differential and shafts. The tubes on it are still just 1/4" wall and 2.5" in diameter with weak end forgings. The ProRock 44 has 3" tubes with massive end forgings, beefy brackets, a proprietary profiled high clearance differential and the Unlimited has 1/2" thick tubes among other things. There really is NO comparison between a factory Dana 44 in name only and a ProRock 44.
tpietzsch
Member
Made some progress in the tear down process. Axle splines were chewed up a little on one end and you can tell where the shaft was rubbing the housing.
Anxiously awaiting a new housing which should be here later this week. Decided on the Prorock 44 housing. I figure I can build upon this platform as the budget allows. The ring and pinion set up will slow me down but she should go back together fairly quick after that.
Anxiously awaiting a new housing which should be here later this week. Decided on the Prorock 44 housing. I figure I can build upon this platform as the budget allows. The ring and pinion set up will slow me down but she should go back together fairly quick after that.
jeeeep
Hooked
Good that you caught it before you sealed it up and went to use it.
tpietzsch
Member
Well, I can't say I was that lucky.