Gussets ordered - do I need offset/adj ball joints?

[teamahh]

Hello all. Here's a bit of a background of what I have going on:

2008 Jeep JKUR on 35s
110k miles
Replaced all ball joints at around 95k miles

After purchasing the Jeep at around 90k miles, there was quite a bit I had to go through and learn. Like fixing the minor DW I had (replaced ball joints, new beefed track bar, upgraded bolts, welded washer = dw free) and finding out that the tires that came with this Jeep had a (edit: 'camber wear') problem..seeing that the tires are in their last season, I didn't really care much for them. But the cause of this is what I was trying to diagnose. So after I had replaced the crappy stock ball joints at 95k miles, and doing other things, I went and got alignment done. The tech who did the alignment had experience working on solid axles, so he seemed to know what he was looking at when he said my camber can't be set unless I get offset ball joints. Otherwise, the wear that happens on the tires will continue. This is after I had already put in new ball joints. I ignored it and went on with my driving and wheeling since it didn't really cause problems driving.

So here I am, a year later, looking to get new tires in the coming months. But am worried that the new tires will start cupping if I don't fix the core issue. I'm thinking that the core issue is a bent C since it hasn't had gussets welded to reinforce it.

My plan is to go get another alignment this Friday and see how far off my camber is from allowable. If it's within allowable then I'll just get the C gussets welded and reinforced and do more frequent rotations with the new tires. I think that will be liveable. But if the camber is too far off, is it a viable option to get offset ball joints? Replace the current (fairly new) ball joints. While doing that, weld up the C gussets to keep it from getting worse.

I seen a few different threads similar to this, but I wanted more opinions on what direction I should go.

Will post a few pics once I jump on a computer, not sure how to do this on my phone..

I am fairly new to a lot of this stuff and do read a lot of listings. But any advice/input/nickels are welcome!

 

[teamahh]

 

[Evil]

Good read anyway on alignments.

http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?...ngler-Front-End-Alignment&highlight=alignment

And are you sure your C's are bent?

My bad, I was thinking caster not camber......

 

[teamahh]

Good read anyway on alignments.

http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?...ngler-Front-End-Alignment&highlight=alignment

And are you sure your C's are bent?

My bad, I was thinking caster not camber......

Definitely a good reference. I actually used this when installing my adjustable track bar and realigning my front end!

I'm not sure if my C's are bent or not. My guess is that they are, but I'm not sure how to check that and by how much, other than seeing that new ball joints don't fix the camber angle and the tires wearing unevenly, cupping on the inside.

 

[Evil]

I guess the best way to tell is to have it re aligned on Friday and see how many degrees its off. If the misaligned ball joints are enough to straighten it out then get them and have them weld the gussets up, install the new ball joints then you know your on track. Hopefully its the same guy and he give you a break on all the work because after the new joints are installed it will need another alignment.

 

[teamahh]

I guess the best way to tell is to have it re aligned on Friday and see how many degrees its off. If the misaligned ball joints are enough to straighten it out then get them and have them weld the gussets up, install the new ball joints then you know your on track. Hopefully its the same guy and he give you a break on all the work because after the new joints are installed it will need another alignment.

Luckily I bought the Jeep with lifetime alignment from Firestone. And the mechanic who did the ball joints for me will be welding my gussets so maybe I can work something out. Fingers crossed.

Thanks!

 

[Evil]

Post back and let us know how far out the camber is and how it turns out. I wish we had a place in Vegas that did that life time alignment.

 

[teamahh]

I got the results from the alignment. Looks like both left and right camber are off by a bit, both at -.9* and the allowable according to the tiny numbers on the sheet is from .1* to -.6*

That being said, my options seem to be getting top balljoints that are offset by .5* to get myself into the range of allowable, and weld the gussets.

Don't mind the crotch shot

Or, leave the current synergy ball joints I have in there, weld the gussets, and hope that enough tire rotations will prevent any cupping in the future for the new tires I'll be getting in a few months.

I also spoke with one of the techs at Firestone, and he said he's bent C's before on a beater rig, but was able to bend then back by heating the C and some leverage. It only got him a few tenths of a degree he needed. But it was doable. Not sure I want to go this route, since this isn't a beater, and it's potentially risky. Anyone heard of people doing this?

 

[Studfam24]

If I had a nickel everytime I was told by an alignment shop that one of our builds needs offset ballpoints. I'd be a rich man.

I say don't do it. Unless you currently have noticeable uneven tire wear.

 

[teamahh]

If I had a nickel everytime I was told by an alignment shop that one of our builds needs offset ballpoints. I'd be a rich man.

I say don't do it. Unless you currently have noticeable uneven tire wear.

This shop didn't actually say anything about adjustable ball joints until I asked them and mentioned perhaps getting adjustable ones. The tech that did the alignment said he had bad experience with adjustable bj, not lasting very long (6 months) on a wheeling rig he had. Maybe it was the brand he got? Bad quality?

My current tires probably have 30% tread depth remaining on them. And im thinking if the camber has been off like this for the life of these tires, the wear is not that uneven, barely noticeable when looking at it dead on/up close. Considering the previous owner didnt do a five tire rotation, with a brand new tire sitting on the spare, I'd say the four on the ground fared pretty well.

(This Jeep has 120k miles currently)

 

[2nd.gunman]

Less than 1 degree is not worth worrying about

 

[teamahh]

Less than 1 degree is not worth worrying about

I'm starting to think the same thing. Thanks!

 

[Studfam24]

I think you're good to go teamahh! Just keep up on the alignments. Your next set of tires should come with a lifetime balance and rotate if you go to a shop and buy them.
I run balance beads in all my beadlocks and never once had uneven tire wear even though when id take it in for a computer alignment it was always off a bit.
Gussets are never a bad idea for the c's. Just make sure you keep the ball joints cool. Lots of write ups on here. Good luck sir!

 

[teamahh]

I think you're good to go teamahh! Just keep up on the alignments. Your next set of tires should come with a lifetime balance and rotate if you go to a shop and buy them.
I run balance beads in all my beadlocks and never once had uneven tire wear even though when id take it in for a computer alignment it was always off a bit.
Gussets are never a bad idea for the c's. Just make sure you keep the ball joints cool. Lots of write ups on here. Good luck sir!

I read plenty of write ups on the gussets. A lot of good info out there. Not sure why I didn't do it as soon as I picked up the Jeep. Thanks for the reassurance!

 

[jknikos]

I am not trying to add more factors here but did you check your unit bearings? Bad unit bearings can cause your tires to sit like they have extra camber and lead to tire cupping.

 

[teamahh]

I am not trying to add more factors here but did you check your unit bearings? Bad unit bearings can cause your tires to sit like they have extra camber and lead to tire cupping.

I have not checked those, haven't even thought of those to be honest. But it's definitely worth taking a gander at. Might have to look at it tomorrow and get back with my findings. Thanks!

 

[teamahh]

Not much play in the wheel, if any that is noticeable. But the unit bearings are definitely stock, sitting on non gusseted and 35s for quite some time now. I guess it wouldn't hurt to upgrade those while I'm in there doing the gussets. I'll give those a shot and see if they help my camber. I saw the nice write up on here, will order a set of those. Thanks jknikos for the insight! I'm learning something about my Jeep every day on here

 

[Jeepnoub]

I would expect cupping to be more from a suspension issue then camber issue, like worn shocks, bearings, ball joints or control arm bushings. Usually you just get uneven tire wear with camber issues.

And once tire start cupping there's not really a way to stop it. And tread pattern and tire pressure play a role also.

 

[teamahh]

I would expect cupping to be more from a suspension issue then camber issue, like worn shocks, bearings, ball joints or control arm bushings. Usually you just get uneven tire wear with camber issues.

And once tire start cupping there's not really a way to stop it. And tread pattern and tire pressure play a role also.

Isn't uneven tire wear, aka cupping? As in the inside of the tire wears out more than the outside of the tire. I keep my tire pressure around 32, that seems to be a happy medium for 35x12.5xR17LT Pro Comp Xtreme A/T. The lift I have on there is a Rough Country 3.25", new shocks etc. Less than 10k on this lift. Ball joints are new synergy less than 5k on those. Control arm bushings look and feel just fine. Not sure what else would cause a neg camber angle other than bent C, or what was mentioned earlier, unit bearings.

 

[BdugJK]

It was explained to me that cupping occurs from worn suspension parts. The main characteristic of "cupping" is a wavy or cup shape on the inside of the tires. You can feel it raise and fall when you run your hand over it and when it is bad enough can see it as well. I had a lowered mustang with bad struts, wore out a set of tires quick. If the excessive wear is even around the entire tire that is an alignment issue.