Hydro steering bleeding

J

JKDream

Guest
Jkzinger said:
Got it back on jackstands and it steers both directions but it is not even as easy as when it had stock steering. Could there just be a ton of air in the system still? Definitely still harder to steer to passenger vs driver side.


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Sounds like you might have an airlock in the system. Personally I would put some road miles on it and let it self bleed.
I mentioned it before but with the RR you will have slower steering than stock at idle. The pump doesn't output enough to move the ram faster than the sector shaft.
If you throw in a PSC pump, it will solve that issue for you. My experience on the rocks, although it is slower to steer when stopped, it is never hard even locked up.
Hope you get it figured out. I've been really impressed with the kit so far.
 
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jeeeep

jeeeep

Hooked
here it a routing diagram I made off my PSC -you may not have all the components but the routing should be the same:

PumpwCooler.jpg

have you checked to make sure some part of the ram isn't hanging on the diff cover? steering should be easy in both directions.

does the steering get easier with higher rpms?

make sure the front end is lifted when you bleed the system.

what components do you have? ram, reservoir? stock pump? cooler?

also possible you may have some debris blocking a port in the steering box.

make sure there are no sharp bends in any of the hoses, there should be radius bends

the advantage of having a ram is when you are on the trail, if it's as hard to steer than you may as well stick with stock.

I can steer mine in 4Lo, lockers locked just as easily as I can when normal driving.

PSC has bleeding instructions on their website if you're not already using them.
 
Jkzinger

Jkzinger

Caught the Bug
JKDream said:
Sounds like you might have an airlock in the system. Personally I would put some road miles on it and let it self bleed.
I mentioned it before but with the RR you will have slower steering than stock at idle. The pump doesn't output enough to move the ram faster than the sector shaft.
If you throw in a PSC pump, it will solve that issue for you. My experience on the rocks, although it is slower to steer when stopped, it is never hard even locked up.
Hope you get it figured out. I've been really impressed with the kit so far.
Click to expand...

Thanks JKDream. I am thinking I have a blockage somewhere or an airlock. After bleeding with the engine off, on the first startup it steered with one finger for about 7 or 8 turns then got tougher and tougher.

It doesn’t even steer good enough to risk going out on the road!


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Jkzinger

Jkzinger

Caught the Bug
jeeeep said:
here it a routing diagram I made off my PSC -you may not have all the components but the routing should be the same:

View attachment 283461

have you checked to make sure some part of the ram isn't hanging on the diff cover? steering should be easy in both directions.

does the steering get easier with higher rpms?

make sure the front end is lifted when you bleed the system.

what components do you have? ram, reservoir? stock pump? cooler?

also possible you may have some debris blocking a port in the steering box.

make sure there are no sharp bends in any of the hoses, there should be radius bends

the advantage of having a ram is when you are on the trail, if it's as hard to steer than you may as well stick with stock.

I can steer mine in 4Lo, lockers locked just as easily as I can when normal driving.

PSC has bleeding instructions on their website if you're not already using them.
Click to expand...

Thanks for helping out. Nothing is hanging up and as I mentioned in my previous post the first few turns with the motor on were fantastic. I am thinking you are right with thinking something blocked a port or an airlock. Gonna try it again today after having it sit overnight. ( right after I golf!).

Steering was not any easier with higher RPMs and I only have the rebuilt box, ram and modified pump for RR. Even reinstalled my old pump and it still acted the same.


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Mediumsizetony

Mediumsizetony

New member
have you tried cracking the lines at the piston ? with the jeep on jack stands and Turing the wheels side to side like 10 times , I work on a lot of heavy equipment that uses ram assist on steering and that how I bleed the piston just make sure you have enough fluid in the reservoir as you will loose some as it bleeds out
 
Jkzinger

Jkzinger

Caught the Bug
Mediumsizetony said:
have you tried cracking the lines at the piston ? with the jeep on jack stands and Turing the wheels side to side like 10 times , I work on a lot of heavy equipment that uses ram assist on steering and that how I bleed the piston just make sure you have enough fluid in the reservoir as you will loose some as it bleeds out
Click to expand...

No I didn’t. Thanks for the tip!


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Jkzinger

Jkzinger

Caught the Bug
Well I took the rig out for a drive and it turns left with one finger but does not want to turn to the right without serious pressure on the steering wheel. Really perplexing. Not sure if air is the issue or not.


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J

JKDream

Guest
Jkzinger said:
Well I took the rig out for a drive and it turns left with one finger but does not want to turn to the right without serious pressure on the steering wheel. Really perplexing. Not sure if air is the issue or not.


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One thing I completely forgot to ask you. Did you center the steering box before installing it?

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Exodus 4x4

Exodus 4x4

New member
Jkzinger said:
Gonna call first thing this morning.


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From what I’ve learned you can never disconnect the ram and expect it to operate with the steering wheel.

Doubtful that they ported it wrong but I suppose it can happen. I’m willing to bet that your pump was doing just about all it could before this and now the added work of a ram has probably pushed it to its limit. Hopefully you get is resolved soon.

I will tell you though that hydro-assist is one of those things that nearly every person has a different opinion on how it feels. In other words, it’s subjective. Once you get things worked out give it about a week of driving it to get used to the new feel.


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DWiggles

DWiggles

Caught the Bug
Exodus Jeeps said:
From what I’ve learned you can never disconnect the ram and expect it to operate with the steering wheel.

Doubtful that they ported it wrong but I suppose it can happen. I’m willing to bet that your pump was doing just about all it could before this and now the added work of a ram has probably pushed it to its limit. Hopefully you get is resolved soon.

I will tell you though that hydro-assist is one of those things that nearly every person has a different opinion on how it feels. In other words, it’s subjective. Once you get things worked out give it about a week of driving it to get used to the new feel.


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All of this^

The ram (disconnected from the tie rod) should reach full travel well before you reach full lock on the wheel. that said, it should be moving in the Correct direction (For a conventional setup it should be extending when turning driver, contracting when turning passenger, etc)

I have no experience with running a factory pump with a ram, But I know Jackal01 ran his ram setup with the factory pump for a short while, he quickly opted for the PSC high flow pump upgrade.

If you have gone through everything posted above, and are still experiencing a difference in steering feel from driver to passenger, I would assume there is either air still in the system, a bad piston seal inside the ram, or it is a pump issue. But again, This is just a guess :idontknow:

I would try the ANAL bleeding process (to the TEE) to eliminate the possibility of air being in the system before throwing more money around.

http://www.pscmotorsports.com/pdf/tech/bleeding.pdf
 
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Jkzinger

Jkzinger

Caught the Bug
Exodus Jeeps said:
From what I’ve learned you can never disconnect the ram and expect it to operate with the steering wheel.

Doubtful that they ported it wrong but I suppose it can happen. I’m willing to bet that your pump was doing just about all it could before this and now the added work of a ram has probably pushed it to its limit. Hopefully you get is resolved soon.

I will tell you though that hydro-assist is one of those things that nearly every person has a different opinion on how it feels. In other words, it’s subjective. Once you get things worked out give it about a week of driving it to get used to the new feel.


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I talked to WTO this morning and he also said don’t look at what the ram is doing. He is thinking something is wrong in the box. He told me to remove the ram and cap the box and try it. I also reinstalled my old pump and there is no difference.

The system feels fantastic driving on a washboard road at 45 but I just can’t turn right easy all. Left is awesome.


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Jackal01

Jackal01

New member
DWiggles said:
All of this^

The ram (disconnected from the tie rod) should reach full travel well before you reach full lock on the wheel. that said, it should be moving in the Correct direction (For a conventional setup it should be extending when turning driver, contracting when turning passenger, etc)

I have no experience with running a factory pump with a ram, But I know Jackal01 ran his ram setup with the factory pump for a short while, he quickly opted for the PSC high flow pump upgrade.
Click to expand...

Correct. My pump has 87k miles/6 years on it running 35s and 37s since buying it with 40k miles. Without the redneck ram on but using the modified gearbox the steering is "fine' on pavement. Ram attached, different story. After a wheeling trip a couple weeks ago one of my lines got messed up and I had to remove the ram and hoses as I thought the delay-sensation was due to the line getting pinched so not enough fluid is flowing. Ordered new hoses, put everything back together. Nope. Problem persisted. Having talked to a couple people we all agreed that more than likely the pump is not able, any longer, to keep up with the ram. The sensation is difficult to describe. Going slow, like 10, it isn't too noticeable if at all. When moving faster I would turn the wheel and it would take a fair amount of force to turn, then a second later the tires would turn. Turning back opposite would take another second. There would be no way to properly do a serpentine course essentially as the steering is "delayed" and force needed is more than what anyone would want. I was able to drive freeway speeds but it was uncomfortable. Hopefully the PSC pump and reservoir solve this.
 
Jkzinger

Jkzinger

Caught the Bug
Jackal01 said:
Correct. My pump has 87k miles/6 years on it running 35s and 37s since buying it with 40k miles. Without the redneck ram on but using the modified gearbox the steering is "fine' on pavement. Ram attached, different story. After a wheeling trip a couple weeks ago one of my lines got messed up and I had to remove the ram and hoses as I thought the delay-sensation was due to the line getting pinched so not enough fluid is flowing. Ordered new hoses, put everything back together. Nope. Problem persisted. Having talked to a couple people we all agreed that more than likely the pump is not able, any longer, to keep up with the ram. The sensation is difficult to describe. Going slow, like 10, it isn't too noticeable if at all. When moving faster I would turn the wheel and it would take a fair amount of force to turn, then a second later the tires would turn. Turning back opposite would take another second. There would be no way to properly do a serpentine course essentially as the steering is "delayed" and force needed is more than what anyone would want. I was able to drive freeway speeds but it was uncomfortable. Hopefully the PSC pump and reservoir solve this.
Click to expand...

My issue is that it is like having no power steering at all turning the wheel right but I can turn it left with one finger. Sitting on my garage floor I can’t even turn it at all without moving.


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