Jeep denies Death wobble on stock jeeps !

[wayoflife]

I will ask him for the info. He works for Tire Discounters (Not Discount Tire). I would think they pull their specs directly from the manufacturer. But I don't know that for sure.

Okay, I just took 2 screen shots, one from my 2007 Factory Service Manual and the other from my 2012. As you can see, toe-in is measured in degrees (not inches) and, both are +0.20° at each front wheel. As you can see, nothing has changed over the years.

2007 FSM Toe-In Specs


2012 FSM Toe-In Specs

I agree with the information on the net (I even make fun of it in my signature). I try to only take the information at face-value and attempt to come to my own opinion. The gotcha to this is I have read it on sooooooooo many sites and threads.

Yeah, I've seen them too. Fact of the matter is, a 10.9 bolt is stronger than a grade 8 and, if size was all that mattered, there would be no need for torque specs. I just wish all these people would give me their old factory bolts as I'd be more than happy to have them. :yup:

 

[jnabird333]

Okay, I just took 2 screen shots, one from my 2007 Factory Service Manual and the other from my 2012. As you can see, toe-in is measured in degrees (not inches) and, both are +0.20° at each front wheel. As you can see, nothing has changed over the years.

2007 FSM Toe-In Specs
View attachment 41439

2012 FSM Toe-In Specs
View attachment 41440

Yea, I knew it was measured in degrees... When he were talking about it he was referencing the measurable difference from the front of the wheels to the backs to another club member that was struggling with DW. He intended this to be a quick and dirty tape measure thing to rule it our or have it checked. At the time I had no opinion or knowledge of the JK suspension, so I was just listening.

Thanks for the spec clarification. :thumb:

 

[JKAnimal]

Just saw this in another thread. Thought it would fit well in here.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/video?id=8547355&pid=8547340&syndicate=syndicate&section=

Looks like quite a bit of evidence to stock Jeeps having issues with DW. :icon_crazy:

 

[Rob]

Okay, I just took 2 screen shots, one from my 2007 Factory Service Manual and the other from my 2012. As you can see, toe-in is measured in degrees (not inches) and, both are +0.20° at each front wheel. As you can see, nothing has changed over the years.

2007 FSM Toe-In Specs
View attachment 41439

2012 FSM Toe-In Specs
View attachment 41440



Yeah, I've seen them too. Fact of the matter is, a 10.9 bolt is stronger than a grade 8 and, if size was all that mattered, there would be no need for torque specs. I just wish all these people would give me their old factory bolts as I'd be more than happy to have them. :yup:

Grade 8 bolts and grade 10.9 bolts both have the same shear and yield strengths and are for the most part equivelent to each other. Grade 8.8 are weaker than either of them. I understand your point about the torque being the primary factor though.

 

[wayoflife]

Just saw this in another thread. Thought it would fit well in here.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/video?id=8547355&pid=8547340&syndicate=syndicate&section=

Looks like quite a bit of evidence to stock Jeeps having issues with DW. :icon_crazy:

If that's the article I remember, it only made the news because the reporter has a Jeep or something like that. There's no question that stock Jeeps "can" have DW but a stock Jeep can also have problems stopping due to bad brakes. The issue has to do with parts wearing out and lack of proper maintenance.

Grade 8 bolts and grade 10.9 bolts both have the same shear and yield strengths and are for the most part equivelent to each other. Grade 8.8 are weaker than either of them. I understand your point about the torque being the primary factor though.

Actually, last I checked, bolts are only measured in "yield" and "tinsel" strength - NOT "shear". While both a grade 8 and 10.9 may be similar, a 10.9 is still stronger in both areas:

Grade 8 has a minimum yield strength of 130,000 psi and a minimum tinsel strength of 150,000 psi
10.9 has a minimum yield strength of 136,300 psi and a minimum tinsel strength of 150,800 psi

An 8.8 is weaker and closer to the strength of a grade 5 but still stronger than it.

 

[Jeep4me2]

Every once in a while my JKU would shake violently to where the steering wheel would seem to be bouncing and vibrating in my hands making it really difficult to hold on to it. I thought that was DW. My JKU was stock and had about 70k miles on it.
I finally got bigger tires. The Discount Tires, where I got them recommended a different place for my alignment because of the larger size. I also got a small 2.5 inch suspension lift (Procomp) that week. The shaking hasn't returned. Not once.
Maybe I never actually had "Death Wobble" but that's definitely how I'd describe the way the Jeep shook for no apparent reason at various speeds, but either the the alignment job, or the work done on the Jeep by Procomp, or the new components added by Procomp seem to have taken care of it. It's been about a year now with no more episodes. To be fair, I don't think the old place I took the Jeep to did such a great job with the alignment as evidenced by the uneven wear in my tires. They always seemed more worn towards the insides. Was that not DW?

 

[bl17z90]

Your track bar was most likely loose and when you installed the lift it was torqued down properly.

 

[wayoflife]

Every once in a while my JKU would shake violently to where the steering wheel would seem to be bouncing and vibrating in my hands making it really difficult to hold on to it. I thought that was DW. My JKU was stock and had about 70k miles on it.
I finally got bigger tires. The Discount Tires, where I got them recommended a different place for my alignment because of the larger size. I also got a small 2.5 inch suspension lift (Procomp) that week. The shaking hasn't returned. Not once.
Maybe I never actually had "Death Wobble" but that's definitely how I'd describe the way the Jeep shook for no apparent reason at various speeds, but either the the alignment job, or the work done on the Jeep by Procomp, or the new components added by Procomp seem to have taken care of it. It's been about a year now with no more episodes. To be fair, I don't think the old place I took the Jeep to did such a great job with the alignment as evidenced by the uneven wear in my tires. They always seemed more worn towards the insides. Was that not DW?

If you really had DW, you would know it. The shaking isn't just in your steering wheel but rather, it's in your entire Jeep and to the point where you feel as if it'll tear itself a part unless you bring your Jeep to a stop.

 

[Jeep4me2]

If you really had DW, you would know it. The shaking isn't just in your steering wheel but rather, it's in your entire Jeep and to the point where you feel as if it'll tear itself a part unless you bring your Jeep to a stop.

Yeah that was it then. I figured it was probably the adjustments made for the lift and alignment that took care of it.

 

[Miramontes]

I was able to cure my death wobble by following Eddies write up. All I had to do was balance tires, alignment and steering stabilizer.