NEVER talk to the police!

[liljohn850]

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/sEvZBKwvE0k

I'm from that county...I have family all over it. This ordeal was huge. Although I agree that both parties were douchey in their own way, and I agree that although cops can be jerks, I'm fully on board with the idea that it's a give and take world. I was once a stupid youg kid (now I'm a broke jeep owner.) I was pulled over once for doing 101 in a 70... in a mini van might I add :2thumbsup: ... trooper pulled up behind me and I knew I was about to spend my first night in jail at 17 (that'll make a proud parent) cop walked up mad as hell that he had to haul ass to catch a mini van. He told me to get out of the car after establishing I was stupid kid and "talked" to me for about 35 minutes and showed me a view pictures of wrecks he'd worked and he also happened to know my mom. Trooper told me to go straight home and that he was gonna call my house in 21 minutes, it was EXACTLY a 25 minute drive (he didn't want me to rush, remember the whole ordeal that got me here) when I walked in the door my mom was standing there (angry...) and the phone rang.... long story shortedned, I left that night with a warning and a sore head...from my talking to and from the frying pan I caught when I walked in. I learned at a relatively young age that respect for others goes a really really really long way. I never REALLY learned about speeding til I was 20, that was expensive, and I tested my luck.

I see both arguments. We have rights that shouldn't be hampered, and cops have a job (a shitty one I might add) that someone has to do. Kids like these don't help. You know what would be helpful? These little bastards volunteering and painting over some thugs grafitti, or these kids volunteering at the local fire station. There is SO MUCH more that young kids can do to BETTER the country that doesn't envolve pissing off cops that they could more than likely admire and aspire to be like. (note: NOT ALL COPS ARE ADMIRABLE, google Crestview Chief of Police scandal, same county... ) but MOST cops are good guys trying to make a living while doing some good.... End rant. :chatterbox:

 

[catahoula]

I'm not a criminal and I find it sad that when I see police, I become fearful rather than protected. I hit my brakes even when I'm not speeding. I avoid contact at all cost.

I do the same thing! Years ago my brother and I were riding in his car. In all honestly we might have been a little over the speed limit. I guess we looked like "punks". Police officer came up on us and riding us on the interstate. Hit his lights and pulled us over. Came up and asked for my brothers I.D. I told my brother to ask him why he was pulled over. The officer snapped back and requested my I.D. as well. Checked us out, did not get a ticket. I have known and still know people in law enforcement. There are bad apples out there. Heck, I remember hearing stories fellow officers would let other off duty officers know where the DUI stops were at so they could avoid them. This was in a larger city I use to live in.

 

[Sharkey]

....and on the streets all of my rights get pissed on in the name of "it's to protect everyone"?

Like with highway above, I'm not trying to argue or fight with anyone, but every day there's another law being passed to make more things illegal, more people criminals, and take away everyone's rights....why do we have to answer to our temporary master while he judges you and decides if he wants to detain you further?

Sorry, ironically enough I haven't had much time to respond in this thread because I was in three straight days of continuing legal education. Even more ironically, one of my seminars was a two hour question and answer session with Chemerinsky (in person) on the most important United States Supreme Court cases dealing with privacy. (For those of you who have never heard of Chemerinsky, he quite literally wrote "the book" on Constitutional law).

Here is my question for you Chris. When was the last time you went on a ride along to see what the police do in a normal shift? When was the last time you personally appeared before your city council to speak for or against a proposed new local ordinance? What about appearing before your state Legislature? What do you do before voting for your city and state officials? Do you interview them? Do you take the time to tell them what you feel and why? Do you help raise money for those with common positions as you? Or at least help walk for their campaigns to get the word out? You may not believe this, but all of the above are far more important to preserve your rights than refusing to roll down your window more than three inches at a noticed DUI checkpoint.

Speaking of checkpoints, what do you do at the border checkpoints to enter into California when asked where you are coming from and whether you have any fruit? Do you refuse to roll down your window and instead hold up a copy of the Constitution? Don't tell me it's not the same...it is EXACTLY the same. An agent of the state temporarily interferes with your movement long enough to ask you a few questions. Guess what, they can and will search your vehicle...no warrant necessary. They can and will deprive you of your property (fruit).

Ever try to launch a boat at Lake Tahoe or just about any other lake in the Sierras? An agent of the state temporarily interferes with your movement, questions you about where your boat has been, and physically inspects your boat to ensure there are no invasive species on the hull, on the prop, etc. Better have a copy of your Constitution in your wetsuit.

Are you really so distrustful of our police (or government for that matter) that you believe all of the above-referenced checkpoints are intended to strip you of Constitutional rights? If the answer is yes, then do something meaningful with your beliefs (more meaningful than trying to make some officer's night a lot more tense than it needs to be). If the answer is no, then just roll down your window, answer one quick question to show you aren't drinking and driving, and be on your way. It really is that simple.

I'm not trying to pick on you Chris. I used to be a lot like you. I was the first guy at a party or bar telling police officers what they could or could not do Constitutionally. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it resulted in me in handcuffs "enjoying" a night away from home.

Then I grew up, a lot. I realized that the vast majority of police officers are good people just trying to do the best job they can under impossible circumstances...and they are hoping to get home alive. Most of us will never understand what that is like.

I also realized that, in my humble opinion, you have no right to complain about a system if you do not take the time out of your life to attempt to change it.

 

[Sharkey]

Heck, I remember hearing stories fellow officers would let other off duty officers know where the DUI stops were at so they could avoid them. This was in a larger city I use to live in.

Lol. There is no secret to tell. Advance notice of DUI stops is available to ALL citizens.

 

[DA RUNT]

I was pulled over once for doing 101 in a 70... in a mini van might I add :2thumbsup:

I call BS :cheesy:

 

[gtony12]

Lol. There is no secret to tell. Advance notice of DUI stops is available to ALL citizens.

Yes they have to post dui check points in local news paper. Prior to having them


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[10frank9]

Lol. There is no secret to tell. Advance notice of DUI stops is available to ALL citizens.

Lol indeed. Sharkey, bravo for expressing my sentiments on a majority of these comments.

Fact: Any DUI checkpoint has to be well marked AND notice must be given (newspaper or press release) in advance, including it's location. If not it is an illegal checkpoint. Makes me laugh that people suggest there is so much covering up happening.

 

[LoPo]

Sorry, ironically enough I haven't had much time to respond in this thread because I was in three straight days of continuing legal education. Even more ironically, one of my seminars was a two hour question and answer session with Chemerinsky (in person) on the most important United States Supreme Court cases dealing with privacy. (For those of you who have never heard of Chemerinsky, he quite literally wrote "the book" on Constitutional law).

Here is my question for you Chris. When was the last time you went on a ride along to see what the police do in a normal shift? When was the last time you personally appeared before your city council to speak for or against a proposed new local ordinance? What about appearing before your state Legislature? What do you do before voting for your city and state officials? Do you interview them? Do you take the time to tell them what you feel and why? Do you help raise money for those with common positions as you? Or at least help walk for their campaigns to get the word out? You may not believe this, but all of the above are far more important to preserve your rights than refusing to roll down your window more than three inches at a noticed DUI checkpoint.

Speaking of checkpoints, what do you do at the border checkpoints to enter into California when asked where you are coming from and whether you have any fruit? Do you refuse to roll down your window and instead hold up a copy of the Constitution? Don't tell me it's not the same...it is EXACTLY the same. An agent of the state temporarily interferes with your movement long enough to ask you a few questions. Guess what, they can and will search your vehicle...no warrant necessary. They can and will deprive you of your property (fruit).

Ever try to launch a boat at Lake Tahoe or just about any other lake in the Sierras? An agent of the state temporarily interferes with your movement, questions you about where your boat has been, and physically inspects your boat to ensure there are no invasive species on the hull, on the prop, etc. Better have a copy of your Constitution in your wetsuit.

Are you really so distrustful of our police (or government for that matter) that you believe all of the above-referenced checkpoints are intended to strip you of Constitutional rights? If the answer is yes, then do something meaningful with your beliefs (more meaningful than trying to make some officer's night a lot more tense than it needs to be). If the answer is no, then just roll down your window, answer one quick question to show you aren't drinking and driving, and be on your way. It really is that simple.

I'm not trying to pick on you Chris. I used to be a lot like you. I was the first guy at a party or bar telling police officers what they could or could not do Constitutionally. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it resulted in me in handcuffs "enjoying" a night away from home.

Then I grew up, a lot. I realized that the vast majority of police officers are good people just trying to do the best job they can under impossible circumstances...and they are hoping to get home alive. Most of us will never understand what that is like.

I also realized that, in my humble opinion, you have no right to complain about a system if you do not take the time out of your life to attempt to change it.

I generally stray away from political convos...and likely will regret replying to this one... but in general why try to change what's already corrupt and unchanging?

Stuff like the video below makes me fearful of dealing with the cops. If you're not familiar, Google Kelly Thomas. My best friend worked to uncover a lot of the wrongdoings and cover up related to this case. Oh he was also on the city council trying to rid the city of the corruption. Guess what he was bounced out by other members in the corrupt circle. Constantly harassed by cops, including his family. Believing that political structures can be changed by sitting down and not filling the pockets of those in power is humorous. Why are police forces becoming more militarized? Perhaps being a lawyer you have a different outlook in dealing with law enforcement but suggesting that we should sit down to talk to things out with people of power that would matter in their eyes makes no sense. The Kelly Thomas type stories are becoming all too common as are making our police more like the military.

http://m.ocregister.com/video/v/1628003509001/crime-fullerton-government

Just as recent as last week.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/05/la-police-assault-woman/12241601/


Look I know there are plenty of good officers out there, unfortunately they are overshadowed by so much of the bad. I'm not suggesting be an ass to an officer, as I agree those guys are putting their life out there on a daily basis. Just be cautious and know your rights while being respectful.

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[ridg3runner]

For the record, Cops AND Lawyers are almost as bad as truck drivers. :cheesy:

 

[David1tontj]

I wanted to add to my earlier rant-

By not rolling down your window and answering a couple quick questions politely, people like this d-bag kid waste the officers time, and potentially let other actual drunks past the checkpoint since the officers are busy making you feel like you know your rights. And who cares if the checkpoints aren't announced??!!! What the crap people!! Are you that worried and stuck up that you would rather help drunks stay on the road and possible kill some innocent person (who was probably nice to that officer btw) than just take part in a minor inconvenience???

How bout next time you pull through a checkpoint you roll your freaking window down an thank the officer for keeping you and your family safe from drunk drivers!

My ride- 2001 power wheel, 11" plastic tires, upgraded battery, boat sides, custom bumpers, tow hooks, new paint.

 

[liljohn850]

I call BS :cheesy:

I promise. Lol. Good times. Old caravans could get it! Hate in mini van motors some more!! Lol

 

[Sharkey]

...but in general why try to change what's already corrupt and unchanging?

...

Perhaps being a lawyer you have a different outlook in dealing with law enforcement but suggesting that we should sit down to talk to things out with people of power that would matter in their eyes makes no sense....

I think you have answered your own question. Or, you can do nothing and just complain that nothing ever changes. Sounds life a self-fulfilling prophecy to me.

What if the founding fathers felt the same as you? Where would we be now? We would have no Constitution at all.

If you do nothing to effect change, you will get a result exactly commensurate with your efforts.

I don't practice criminal law, so being a lawyer has nothing to do with my views about police officers.

Believe me, I hate politics and much about the political process. I'm not knocking you or your experiences. But, my education and professional experiences have taught me that you cannot change things unless you are willing to roll up your sleeves and get in the trenches.

Edit: what do you mean by "militarized"? Are you are referring to the type of equipment and training the police receive and use? I would hope and expect my local police force to have the necessary resources to not be "outgunned" and out-trained by the real criminals. I think that lesson was learned many years ago in SoCal.

I agree, there are SOME nasty cops out there. There are also some corrupt attorneys, doctors, dentists, contractors, whatever. I don't judge the whole by the few.

The videos you linked are examples of the bad in this world. The examples of the good far outweigh the bad, but they don't make for good news stories. How many tens of thousands of police/citizen interactions do you think there are across the country every day? The percentage of those that result in someone getting beat up by an officer or improperly losing their Constitutional rights is so incredibly minuscule it is ridiculous for the average law abiding citizen to be fearful of police interaction.

I've seen some nasty videos of shark attacks yet I still swim in the ocean. I guess I'm just crazy like that.

 

[Sharkey]

For the record, Cops AND Lawyers are almost as bad as truck drivers. :cheesy:

Well, let's not get ridiculous. :bleh:

:cheesy::beer:

 

[10frank9]

This IS NOT an anti-police thread or a thread meant to get people all fired up to talk negatively about law enforcement.

So how's the thread turning out Chris? As you had planned? :bleh: :cheesy:

 

[StrizzyChris]

Good thing is, when the haters need saving, their "Temporary masters" will be their "Temporary heroes."

To be honest, I don't think that we should have to become servants to someone to also be appreciative of them doing a great job protecting us.

Trust me they won't think twice about it, they won't fail to do their job because you were a douche. Nope they WILL do their best, potentially give their life for yours.

And for that, I(I hope that I am not considered a douche for being afraid of police) will always be greatful and support them in doing their true duty in serving and protecting.

I'm sorry Chris, I thought I knew you better, but if you think a police officer is your "temporary master" when you are detained, there is no hope for you or the youth who are like-minded.

Well I sure hope that nothing I wrote on here swayed your opinion of me. Anyone who has ever known me or met me knows for a fact that I am 100% respectful and courteous of ever person I meet. Ill chalk this up to internet misunderstanding I hope?

I also enjoy a nice debate, but the mindset of them being a "temporary master" is dangerous, not only for you but for them as well. Bottom line is you have some control of the result of a police contact. I truly hope you don't act like this jackass if you get pulled over for speeding.

To be honest....I am almost never get pulled over, and haven't been for over 5 years. When I was, I about to shit myself because, as soon as I saw the blue and red lights all I could think about is the expense that is about to be cast upon me rather than a conversation about what I did wrong and a respectful mutual understanding. It's never been addressed with me in an educational manner like that...strictly discipline.

Here is my question for you Chris. When was the last time you went on a ride along to see what the police do in a normal shift? When was the last time you personally appeared before your city council to speak for or against a proposed new local ordinance? What about appearing before your state Legislature? What do you do before voting for your city and state officials? Do you interview them? Do you take the time to tell them what you feel and why? Do you help raise money for those with common positions as you? Or at least help walk for their campaigns to get the word out? You may not believe this, but all of the above are far more important to preserve your rights than refusing to roll down your window more than three inches at a noticed DUI checkpoint.

I've never had a true "home" that I have lived in my adult life long enough to participate in the manner that you mention in my local government. But if I am being honest, I am less trustful of the words out of a politicians mouth than I am of any other person in the world. I'll admit that I am jaded by what I see happening to our country and government.

Are you really so distrustful of our police (or government for that matter) that you believe all of the above-referenced checkpoints are intended to strip you of Constitutional rights? If the answer is yes, then do something meaningful with your beliefs (more meaningful than trying to make some officer's night a lot more tense than it needs to be). If the answer is no, then just roll down your window, answer one quick question to show you aren't drinking and driving, and be on your way. It really is that simple.

Do I believe that they are intended to strip me of my rights? No. Have I personally experienced the abuse of the "random stop" to invade my privacy and damage my personal property? Yes, many times! From those instances, I am tremendously distrustful!

I'm not trying to pick on you Chris. I used to be a lot like you. I was the first guy at a party or bar telling police officers what they could or could not do Constitutionally. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it resulted in me in handcuffs "enjoying" a night away from home.

Then I grew up, a lot. I realized that the vast majority of police officers are good people just trying to do the best job they can under impossible circumstances...and they are hoping to get home alive. Most of us will never understand what that is like.

As "young" as I may sound, I believe myself to be tremendously experienced and though I created a thread here(not intended to end like this) I am not the guy who goes out looking to tell police or anyone how they must treat me. I am the first person to lower my head, say yes sir, and hop into the passenger seat as my DD drives me home.

I also realized that, in my humble opinion, you have no right to complain about a system if you do not take the time out of your life to attempt to change it.

This is the one thing I feel that I am the most guilty of. I truly feel my opinion doesn't matter and that there's nothing I can say of do to change the way our local or federal government operates. Shit, a huge group of lawyers and thousands of names on a petition nearly failed to save KOH and have lost many trails to offroaders. I and I feel comfortable guessing that 99% of my fellow Americans feel helpless against the machine that is our government.

For the record, Cops AND Lawyers are almost as bad as truck drivers. :cheesy:

My trucker father would agree! :cheesy:

So how's the thread turning out Chris? As you had planned? :bleh: :cheesy:

:cheesy: not even slightly :sigh:

I had anticipated a thread of people giving others tips(similar to my post #2) on how to protect themselves when they are in trouble and how to not incriminate themselves when "in trouble". I didn't expect the need to defend myself on my fear of police when I am confronted with them....but I'll give three of my worst(not that bad in the grand scheme of life) experiences and the basis of my fear/distrust. \/below\/

 

[ridg3runner]

Well, let's not get ridiculous. :bleh:

:cheesy::beer:

It was a joke Sharkey,lol. Thought I'd toss a little humor in there before Chris has a stroke or something.

 

[StrizzyChris]

#1-Myself and 4 other friend were 18 and went to an "adult bookstore" to look around and laugh at all the crap they had inside. We left and bought nothing and were going to my parent house to watch movies and hang out...well next thing we know we are being pulled over. The cop tells us that we "didn't come to a complete stop at the intersection" which was total BS and just a reason to pull us over. We were asked if we had been drinking and none of us had a single substance in us so we all said no. The officer "smells alcohol and needs us all to step out of the vehicle" So we all politely do and sit on the curb. The officer then asks if they can search the car. My friend(who's vehicle it is) says "No, why do you need to search our car?" the officers yells at my friend threatening to take him to jail tonight and call his parents. My friends response is "please call my father and get him down here immediately. I want him to be here when you search my car against my will." The officer gets pissed and says that he is going to take the dog around his car and that if the dog "hits" then he will search the car. Well of course the dog "hits" and in the process the dog scratches the hit out of his car and tear a hole in his leather on the fallowing inner car search. The found nothing and tell us to hurry home because "the next time they will find what we are hiding" and that "you guys are lucky that you smoked whatever our dog smelled and we better never get caught with it." The dickhead officers partner was a really nice guy and informed us that the adult store was know for drug sales and that we need to avoid it at all costs from now on. Clearly they pulled us over on suspicion rather than us doing anything wrong and detained us for about an hour while threatening us the whole time.

#2- My brother had a classic Chevy pickup with Colorado plates(long story short he lived/worked part time there and had the car in Ohio at the time). We were moving his belongings from Michigan to Ohio and were pulled over at the southern border of MI for "swerving". We had been packing all day and driving so absolutely not a sip of alcohol in the past 24 hours. Well they were not satisfied with the answers my brother was giving them about the reason for CO plates on a vehicle traveling full of boxes and bags from MI to OH and would not quit asking questions about "what we are really doing on the road and where we were heading. Long story short, the same thing happened with a police dog "hitting" on his truck and that damn dog DESTROYED his paintjob on his truck. They took all the boxes out of the bed, strung half the shit across the median of the highway and when they found NOTHING they said, "you're free to go". Not one of them offered to help us pack all the shit back up into the boxes, put the boxes back into the truck....NOTHING! My brother THEN became pissed and said "what they hell am I supposed to do about your damn dog scratching the shit out of my truck" to which the smug ass officer said "if you want to file a complaint about me, here's the number you can call." and handed him a card. Well, he called and after a ton of calls(all of which he was given the run around about papers to file to fill a complaint and people he needed to contact) nothing happened and there was no damages repaid to him for the dog's "hit".

#3- I was walking across campus with about 10 people, headed to a party, when an officer pops out of the bushes because he saw 1 of the members of our group with a beer in his hands. We were all detained for around an hour while we were interrogated and forced into breathalyzer testing for public intoxication charges and a statement against my friends stating I saw them with beer. After being yelled at and being told that I was going to jail, because I was with them, unless I made a statement against them. At that point I would be free to go. Well I refused to a statement against then, I passed the breathalyzer test and was eventually let go for being INOCENT of doing anything wrong.

I may be looked negatively at, but I am fearful of police. From my MANY (these are just a few) run ins with the police, I have never had a good experience. All I intended with this thread was to hopefully educate people on how to protect themselves and their rights when being detained, not to start fights or negative attitudes toward officers. I work closely with officers on a daily basis in the ER(I work in the county hospital so we receive every Med clearance) and I see the POS that they deal with on a daily basis. AGAIN I an grateful and respectful of police for the job that they do that many are unwilling to do....but I am afraid of them, and the power they yield to take away my freedoms on a moments notice, at the same time. I don't think that makes me a bad person? :idontknow:

 

[David1tontj]

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences with the cops Chris.

If we switch this thread around to giving advice-

I would say this

Always answer questions and try your best to cooperate- failing to do so just gives the officer reason to suspect you are hiding something. It is nothing more than antagonizing the cop and bringing out the worst in him.

Edit**** this was intended to refer to while in your vehicle- no, I am not saying you should always consent to any search, just if you don't want to be delayed and have your car scratched up- besides, I thought driving was a privilege, not a right??******

Always Consent to a search** see edit**. If you truly are innocent, then you won't have anything to worry about. If you tell them they can't search your car, they will see that as guilt and likely hold you until their dog can scratch up your car, and then still search your car anyways, only this time, thy will think you are guilty and REALLY tear stuff up looking for what you're hiding.

I have consented to many searches, therefore, I've never had a dog scratch my car, and it has never been more than the cop emptying my glove box and center console (never been more than a 5 minute ordeal) and most of the time I needed to clean those out anyway! Haha.

Long story short- by refusing to cooperate, the cops automatically think you are hiding something, and then they REALLY want to find something.


My ride- 2001 power wheel, 11" plastic tires, upgraded battery, boat sides, custom bumpers, tow hooks, new paint.

 

[Sharkey]

It was a joke Sharkey,lol. Thought I'd toss a little humor in there before Chris has a stroke or something.

I know, I appreciated the humor and was joking back.

 

[seanb123]

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences with the cops Chris.

If we switch this thread around to giving advice-

I would say this

Always answer questions and try your best to cooperate- failing to do so just gives the officer reason to suspect you are hiding something. It is nothing more than antagonizing the cop and bringing out the worst in him.

Always Consent to a search. If you truly are innocent, then you won't have anything to worry about. If you tell them they can't search your car, they will see that as guilt and likely hold you until their dog can scratch up your car, and then still search your car anyways, only this time, thy will think you are guilty and REALLY tear stuff up looking for what you're hiding.

I have consented to many searches, therefore, I've never had a dog scratch my car, and it has never been more than the cop emptying my glove box and center console (never been more than a 5 minute ordeal) and most of the time I needed to clean those out anyway! Haha.

Long story short- by refusing to cooperate, the cops automatically think you are hiding something, and then they REALLY want to find something.


My ride- 2001 power wheel, 11" plastic tires, upgraded battery, boat sides, custom bumpers, tow hooks, new paint.

The great creators of this nation are rolling over in their graves with the statement "Always Consent to a search". I understand that it's easier yes but we were giving that right to protect us from the police. I know this is a stretch but if you consent to a search and a cop has it out for you he could plant some drugs or simply just invade your privacy. He is a stranger to me and I would never just let a stranger just go all through my car. His piece of mind is not my responsibility so if he wants to think the worst that's fine.

I understand that cops have a tough job and I am polite I talk to them none of the window crack stuff. But I have always been educated on my right but more importantly knowing when to use them and when to use them not just to be a dick.