Thought on turbos?

J

JMac79

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Me and a buddy were talking about increasing power out of his Jeep. Thoughts on turbos? Obviously this is a Jeep and not some Fast and the Furious vehicle that will end up in the "Kill it with Fire" hall of fame. What's your take for a turbo as a viable option compared to a motor swap? I really never considered this until I saw some buggies/vehicles running them at King of the Hammers.


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JMac79 said:
Me and a buddy were talking about increasing power out of his Jeep. Thoughts on turbos? Obviously this is a Jeep and not some Fast and the Furious vehicle that will end up in the "Kill it with Fire" hall of fame. What's your take for a turbo as a viable option compared to a motor swap? I really never considered this until I saw some buggies/vehicles running them at King of the Hammers.


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I'm no expert, but don't you get the most out of a turbocharger, when the engine is wound up at high rpm? Would that really benefit a Jeep?


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notnalc68 said:
I'm no expert, but don't you get the most out of a turbocharger, when the engine is wound up at high rpm? Would that really benefit a Jeep?


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Yeah I know that seems to be the kicker. I guess it would be most useful hauling ass in the desert. What got my attention was after the Backdoor challenge, a lot of vehicles trying to go up, you could hear the turbos spooling up. I guess it would be best when trying to throttle up an obstacle. I was just surprised how many vehicles/buggies that had turbos on them.


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JMac79 said:
.... What got my attention was after the Backdoor challenge, a lot of vehicles trying to go up, you could hear the turbos spooling up.....
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Not sure what the backdoor challenge is and not sure I want to know....But regarding turbos, I don't feel they would be worth the effort or cost on a jeep unless you really know what you're doing. I've messed with a few on other vehicles and it is tricky to dial in unless you get a good kit or know someone who can really flash the ECM accurately. As far as low end power, if you are going to run a turbo, a helpful option is a t3/t4 hybrid. It uses a t3 smaller turbine housing whereas the compressor housing is a larger t4. You can get better spool up at low rpms while forcing a higher of volume of air in the engine at the lower rpms as well. I still think on a jeep application, gears are the way to go.
 
WJCO said:
Not sure what the backdoor challenge is and not sure I want to know....But regarding turbos, I don't feel they would be worth the effort or cost on a jeep unless you really know what you're doing. I've messed with a few on other vehicles and it is tricky to dial in unless you get a good kit or know someone who can really flash the ECM accurately. As far as low end power, if you are going to run a turbo, a helpful option is a t3/t4 hybrid. It uses a t3 smaller turbine housing whereas the compressor housing is a larger t4. You can get better spool up at low rpms while forcing a higher of volume of air in the engine at the lower rpms as well. I still think on a jeep application, gears are the way to go.
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That sounds expensive.


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WJCO said:
Not sure what the backdoor challenge is and not sure I want to know....But regarding turbos, I don't feel they would be worth the effort or cost on a jeep unless you really know what you're doing. I've messed with a few on other vehicles and it is tricky to dial in unless you get a good kit or know someone who can really flash the ECM accurately. As far as low end power, if you are going to run a turbo, a helpful option is a t3/t4 hybrid. It uses a t3 smaller turbine housing whereas the compressor housing is a larger t4. You can get better spool up at low rpms while forcing a higher of volume of air in the engine at the lower rpms as well. I still think on a jeep application, gears are the way to go.
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Haha. Yeah not a great name for an obstacle at Johnson Valley for sure. It does seem pretty pricey in the $5-$8K range just for parts. Gears do seem like the better choice.


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ob_tj said:
That would be awesome but you'd be surprised at how much HP you can pump out of a chevy 5.3. We have already got 605hp out of my old man pickup.
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That's cool. I want to build a 73-87 chevy 4x4. I was looking at all the different options. Don't think I would need 605 HP, maybe low 4's would be plenty. Although you can never have enough.


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Turbo's don't necessarily need rpm to make boost. They need a load. If sized correctly they can spool up pretty fast. Really the benefits would be on the road/highway. Since they need a load to create boost pressure they don't create boost when cruising at a steady speed which means better mpg's then a supercharger. A positive displacement super charger like edelbrock or magnuson will creative better off idle power which would be helpful on the road and the trail.

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ob_tj said:
And to the OP there is no replacement for displacement. Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
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There is, though. What displacement gets you is more air to mix more fuel with per intake cycle and sometimes a longer stroke giving more torque, forced induction does the job ( putting more air in so you can put more fuel in) for you. Turbos work at higher RPM so aren't as well suited to off roading (unless the high speed type) as a belt driven supercharger which gives a more instant throttle response and really flat torque curves with usable and predictable response at lower RPM.
 
Zstairlessone said:
There is, though. What displacement gets you is more air to mix more fuel with per intake cycle and sometimes a longer stroke giving more torque, forced induction does the job ( putting more air in so you can put more fuel in) for you. Turbos work at higher RPM so aren't as well suited to off roading (unless the high speed type) as a belt driven supercharger which gives a more instant throttle response and really flat torque curves with usable and predictable response at lower RPM.
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Well said,
 
Interesting topic as I've been checking out new pickups as a possible new vehicle and was kinda turned off on the Ford Ecoboost engines at first for the many reasons stated above. I also had turbo car a while ago and was constantly irritated by the turbo lag. But I started doing a little research and turns out the Ecoboost engine in the Ford has peak torque at 2900 rpm and the 5.0 V8's is at 4300. Horsepower is the same, the turbo's max HP is at 5200 and the V8 is at 5900.

Point is, with a properly tuned turbo you CAN build boost early. I just wonder if its worth the effort in the end. Its one thing for a factory to get the setup right, another for an individual or tuner shop. The amount of trial & error involved might make a V8 more feasible.
 
Ddays said:
Interesting topic as I've been checking out new pickups as a possible new vehicle and was kinda turned off on the Ford Ecoboost engines at first for the many reasons stated above. I also had turbo car a while ago and was constantly irritated by the turbo lag. But I started doing a little research and turns out the Ecoboost engine in the Ford has peak torque at 2900 rpm and the 5.0 V8's is at 4300. Horsepower is the same, the turbo's max HP is at 5200 and the V8 is at 5900.

Point is, with a properly tuned turbo you CAN build boost early. I just wonder if its worth the effort in the end. Its one thing for a factory to get the setup right, another for an individual or tuner shop. The amount of trial & error involved might make a V8 more feasible.
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Turbo technology has come a long way. Especially with the vgt design. It has a separate set of vanes inside the turbine housing that is hydraulically controlled by oil pressure. When engine rpm is low the vanes move and direct air towards the turbine wheel. As rpm increases, the vanes move and direct air away. As far as the Ecoboost engines, seen a ton of piston and rod failures, not sure why, but seen a lot.
 
notnalc68 said:
What about added heat. I know a supercharger does it, but what about a turbocharger?


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Any time air is compressed, there is more heat. Added to that is that a turbo's turbine is exhaust driven, so even more heat. Intercooler is a must. It's really a fun trick, though, after driving one, if you touch the intercooler inlet, it will burn your fingers, but the intercooler outlet will be about as cold as a refrigerator. Pretty neat to realize that air cooling air like that does indeed work.
 
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