Tie rod choices...steel or aluminum?

ammojustin

ammojustin

New member
I just replaced my entire front end. All Rubicon express HD 1 ton 4140 steel. Also upgraded the drag link, track bar and sway bar disconnects. Very happy with how everything has come together and though I haven’t been out in the shit yet I have no doubt it will preform. Great prices and quality. IMG_0020.jpg


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sipafz

sipafz

Caught the Bug
QuicksilverJK said:
Still not quite sure I understand. So it cuts 1/2 fills 1/2?


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WJCO said:
I watched the video. I'm still confused on what thread forming is compared to tapping. Is material added in the small voids?
Click to expand...

We do a lot of thread forming at work. During normal thread cutting, one drills a hole to the minor diameter. Minor diameter is typically calculated as major diameter minus the thread pitch.

Example 1/4-20 cut thread:
20 threads per inch has a pitch of .05” (1 / 20 = .05)
The minor diameter is calculated as the major diameter minus the pitch (1/4” or .25” - .05” = .2”)

Thread forming displaces the metal instead of cutting it away. Displacing metal hardens the surface and produces a stronger thread. The initial minor diameter is larger and is usually calculated as the major diameter minus 1/2 of the pitch. Whats cool about forming thread is as the form tap enters the hole the metal is displaced from the major diameter and forms the minor diameter to be basically the same as a cut thread when finished.

QuicksilverJK questioned if forming cuts half and fills half. That close, but no cutting, it’s more like half is displaced into the other half.

Example 1/4-20 formed thread:
Again 20 threads per inch has a pitch of .05” (1 / 20 = .05)
The minor diameter is calculated as the major diameter minus the (pitch / 2) or 1/4” or .25” - (.05” / 2) = .225”

Now before you read all this and say I’m going to buy a bunch of form taps for my toolbox, form tapping requires an incredible amount of torque and power. It cannot be done by hand!

I’m ready to accept my nerd award now. [emoji849]
 
Last edited:
Exodus 4x4

Exodus 4x4

New member
sipafz said:
We do a lot of thread forming at work. During normal thread cutting, one drills a hole to the minor diameter. Minor diameter is typically calculated as major diameter minus the thread pitch.

Example 1/4-20 cut thread:
20 threads per inch has a pitch of .05” (1 / 20 = .05)
The minor diameter is calculated as the major diameter minus the pitch (1/4” or .25” - .05” = .2”)

Thread forming displaces the metal instead of cutting it away. Displacing metal hardens the surface and produces a stronger thread. The initial minor diameter is larger and usually the major diameter minus 1/2 of the pitch. Whats cool about forming thread is as the form tap enters the hole the metal is displaced from the major diameter and form the minor diameter to be basically the same as a cut thread when finished.

QuicksilverJK questioned if forming cuts half and fills half. That close, but no cutting, it’s more like half is displaced into the other half.

Example 1/4-20 formed thread:
Again 20 threads per inch has a pitch of .05” (1 / 20 = .05)
The minor diameter is calculated as the major diameter minus the (pitch / 2) or 1/4” or .25” - (.05” / 2) = .225”

Now before you read all this and say I’m going to buy a bunch of form taps for my toolbox, form tapping requires an incredible amount of torque and power. It cannot be done by hand!

I’m ready to accept my nerd award now. [emoji849]
Click to expand...

Thanks for the long and detailed explanation! Yeah it’s definitely not something you’re going to do by hand and the taps are NOT cheap, but worth the investment to provide what I believe to be a better product.


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sipafz

sipafz

Caught the Bug
Exodus Jeeps said:
Thanks for the long and detailed explanation! Yeah it’s definitely not something you’re going to do by hand and the taps are NOT cheap, but worth the investment to provide what I believe to be a better product.


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Well, I totally agree that forming threads is far superior to cutting them. Like you mentioned a few post ago, the threads are really smooth as compared to cut threads, harder and stronger.

It’s been my experience that form taps cost about the same as a premium cut thread taps. Temper that with the fact that we spend 10k a month on tooling so we might see some breaks.
 
QuicksilverJK

QuicksilverJK

Caught the Bug
sipafz said:
We do a lot of thread forming at work. During normal thread cutting, one drills a hole to the minor diameter. Minor diameter is typically calculated as major diameter minus the thread pitch.

Example 1/4-20 cut thread:
20 threads per inch has a pitch of .05” (1 / 20 = .05)
The minor diameter is calculated as the major diameter minus the pitch (1/4” or .25” - .05” = .2”)

Thread forming displaces the metal instead of cutting it away. Displacing metal hardens the surface and produces a stronger thread. The initial minor diameter is larger and is usually calculated as the major diameter minus 1/2 of the pitch. Whats cool about forming thread is as the form tap enters the hole the metal is displaced from the major diameter and forms the minor diameter to be basically the same as a cut thread when finished.

QuicksilverJK questioned if forming cuts half and fills half. That close, but no cutting, it’s more like half is displaced into the other half.

Example 1/4-20 formed thread:
Again 20 threads per inch has a pitch of .05” (1 / 20 = .05)
The minor diameter is calculated as the major diameter minus the (pitch / 2) or 1/4” or .25” - (.05” / 2) = .225”

Now before you read all this and say I’m going to buy a bunch of form taps for my toolbox, form tapping requires an incredible amount of torque and power. It cannot be done by hand!

I’m ready to accept my nerd award now. [emoji849]
Click to expand...

Wow, thanks for the explanation. I have never heard of such a thing. Always cool learning about new tooling and processes.


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Exodus 4x4

Exodus 4x4

New member
sipafz said:
Well, I totally agree that forming threads is far superior to cutting them. Like you mentioned a few post ago, the threads are really smooth as compared to cut threads, harder and stronger.

It’s been my experience that form taps cost about the same as a premium cut thread taps. Temper that with the fact that we spend 10k a month on tooling so we might see some breaks.
Click to expand...

The form taps in 7/8-18 for both RH and LH weren’t cheap, but then again I’m not used to spending that much money on tooling[emoji23].



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sipafz

sipafz

Caught the Bug
Exodus Jeeps said:
3) We have options for a finish. The basic aluminum tie rod has a raw finish. That’s fine for us southern and west coasters, but for those in the rust belt it could be a nightmare. Therefore we will have the extreme duty option that will have a finish on it resistant to salt and other abrasive road elements. More info on that will be available in the coming weeks.


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We’ve had good success anodizing aluminum with a black hard coat to mil spec. It might not be as pretty as colored anodize with a clear coat, but it’s really durable and sounds cool from a marketing POV.

We use it anytime we are building machinery that will be exposed to weather or wash down situations.
 
Exodus 4x4

Exodus 4x4

New member
sipafz said:
We’ve had good success anodizing aluminum with a black hard coat to mil spec. It might not be as pretty as colored anodize with a clear coat, but it’s really durable and sounds cool from a marketing POV.

We use it anytime we are building machinery that will be exposed to weather or wash down situations.
Click to expand...

And that’s pretty much what this is. I don’t have all the specs in front of me so I’m reluctant to rattle it off.


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sipafz

sipafz

Caught the Bug
Exodus Jeeps said:
The form taps in 7/8-18 for both RH and LH weren’t cheap, but then again I’m not used to spending that much money on tooling[emoji23].



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Click to expand...

7/8-18 is rather large. That’s probably going to take a little hp to drive those in. I’ve never done one that big. My largest is 5/8” and 16mm for aluminum. We will go up to 1/2” or 12mm with steel or ductile iron. I’ll be interested to hear how it works for you.
 
WJCO

WJCO

Meme King
sipafz said:
We do a lot of thread forming at work. During normal thread cutting, one drills a hole to the minor diameter. Minor diameter is typically calculated as major diameter minus the thread pitch.

Example 1/4-20 cut thread:
20 threads per inch has a pitch of .05” (1 / 20 = .05)
The minor diameter is calculated as the major diameter minus the pitch (1/4” or .25” - .05” = .2”)

Thread forming displaces the metal instead of cutting it away. Displacing metal hardens the surface and produces a stronger thread. The initial minor diameter is larger and is usually calculated as the major diameter minus 1/2 of the pitch. Whats cool about forming thread is as the form tap enters the hole the metal is displaced from the major diameter and forms the minor diameter to be basically the same as a cut thread when finished.

QuicksilverJK questioned if forming cuts half and fills half. That close, but no cutting, it’s more like half is displaced into the other half.

Example 1/4-20 formed thread:
Again 20 threads per inch has a pitch of .05” (1 / 20 = .05)
The minor diameter is calculated as the major diameter minus the (pitch / 2) or 1/4” or .25” - (.05” / 2) = .225”

Now before you read all this and say I’m going to buy a bunch of form taps for my toolbox, form tapping requires an incredible amount of torque and power. It cannot be done by hand!

I’m ready to accept my nerd award now. [emoji849]
Click to expand...

Good info. Thanks.
 
rockabillyroy

rockabillyroy

Member
Exodus Jeeps said:
Yep. Finally getting the first run started tomorrow.

I used to be all about the DOM, but now I’m manufacturing them out of 1.5” 7075 aluminum. Which is better? Well it all comes down to money. If you’re on a budget and can DIY the tie rod, then the RuffStuff kit is a no brainer. It’s relatively cheap and if done right can be a damn nice, strong tie rod. Some people claim they bend easy but I’ve never had any of the ones I’ve built and install have any issues. However, they are heavy and I ALWAYS tig welded the bungs in which is time consuming. 3 passes on a good size bevel takes time. Also, due to the weight they are more costly to shop.

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will be in the market for one. gonna keep an eye on this thread. Thanks
 
sm31

sm31

Active Member
I'm sorry if I missed it... what is the weight savings for the Exodus aluminum tie rod vs the Ruff Stuff kit?

I'm at the front end of my build, and attempting to save weight wherever possible. Thanks!
 
B

bluejkurcc

New member
I actually just made my own tie rod and drag link. I used 1 ton rod ends from Ruff Stuff and Synergy. The aluminum links were from Wide Open Designs, they have a great site where you can get custom lengths and taps of aluminum links. Total cost for tie rod and drag link was about $400 all made from 1.5" 7075 Aluminum with 1 ton tie rod ends. I had it powdercoated and it looks amazing! no more death wobble and my jeep drives like a dream
 

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Mountainjk10

Mountainjk10

Caught the Bug
bluejkurcc said:
I actually just made my own tie rod and drag link. I used 1 ton rod ends from Ruff Stuff and Synergy. The aluminum links were from Wide Open Designs, they have a great site where you can get custom lengths and taps of aluminum links. Total cost for tie rod and drag link was about $400 all made from 1.5" 7075 Aluminum with 1 ton tie rod ends. I had it powdercoated and it looks amazing! no more death wobble and my jeep drives like a dream
Click to expand...

Very nice! [emoji106] it’s always good to see diy projects.


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Exodus 4x4

Exodus 4x4

New member
sm31 said:
I'm sorry if I missed it... what is the weight savings for the Exodus aluminum tie rod vs the Ruff Stuff kit?

I'm at the front end of my build, and attempting to save weight wherever possible. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t says it’s a crazy amount, or really the reason to go this route. It’s more about strength and simplicity of manufacturing.


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