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View Full Version : Jeep JL Wrangler to be available with a 300 HP Hurricane Turbo Four



wayoflife
05-09-2016, 04:52 PM
Just read the following article on Autoblog by Noah Joseph and while we've all known for a while now that there was a good likelihood that the new Jeep JL Wrangler was going come with a 4-cylinder engine and that it was going to be called the Hurricane, I don't think any of us though it would might come with as much as 300 HP!! Check it out...

202580


Fiat Chrysler has been working for some time now on a new turbocharged four-cylinder engine. Dubbed "Hurricane," the engine is now said to produce nearly 300 horsepower. And its first application could be in the next-generation Jeep Wrangler.

With that much power coming from such a small engine, the Hurricane would offer an even higher level of specific output than the 1.75-liter engine in the Alfa Romeo 4C – one of FCA's highest-stressed engines – far eclipsing the 4C's 120 horsepower per liter with 150 hp/l. By way of comparison, the latest 2.0-liter, four-cylinder version of Ford's EcoBoost engine produces "only" 245 hp (122.5 hp/l). The 2.0-liter turbo four in the latest Mercedes-AMG CLA45 and GLA45, however, produces 375 hp.

To get so much out of so little an engine, FCA will utilize a twin-scroll turbocharger and variable valve timing. That could make it ideally suited towards a compact performance model, but according to Automotive News, its first application could be in the new the Wrangler. The larger 3.6-liter Pentastar V6 produces 285 hp, nearly as much as the Hurricane will. But with a smaller engine, an eight-speed transmission, and aluminum construction, the new Jeep will likely benefit from dramatically-improved fuel consumption.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/05/09/jeep-wrangler-hurricane-turbo-four-report/?ncid=edlinkusauto00000016

swampdog
05-09-2016, 04:54 PM
Is there not any concern for a turbo in a dusty / muddy environment? Seems like a recipe for ingestion and early failure, no? On the highway it would be perfect.

WJCO
05-09-2016, 04:55 PM
Hey, that's cool. When I had my WRX, it surprised the shit out of me how much power you can get from a Turbo'd 4cyl. Hope it works out for them. You can get some decent mpgs too if you keep your foot off the gas.

WJCO
05-09-2016, 04:56 PM
Is there not any concern for a turbo in a dusty / muddy environment? Seems like a recipe for ingestion and early failure, no? On the highway it would be perfect.

Yep. Gotta keep oil and air filter changed very regularly on a turbocharged engine. If you keep up on maintenance though, they'll last awhile.

wayoflife
05-09-2016, 04:58 PM
Is there not any concern for a turbo in a dusty / muddy environment? Seems like a recipe for ingestion and early failure, no? On the highway it would be perfect.

Oh yeah, there's a legit concern and for me, it'd be more in the fact that turbos and superchargers tend to have the HP on the high end of the RPM range. In other words, they aren't very useful for rock crawling or for bumping up ledges in Moab. And before all the supercharger fans come on to say otherwise, let me just say that this is just based on what I have seen over the years and I've always been far from impressed. Again, just me.

swampdog
05-09-2016, 05:01 PM
Oh yeah, there's a legit concern and for me, it'd be more in the fact that turbos and superchargers tend to have the HP on the high end of the RPM range. In other words, they aren't very useful for rock crawling or for bumping up ledges in Moab. And before all the supercharger fans come on to say otherwise, let me just say that this is just based on what I have seen over the years and I've always been far from impressed. Again, just me.

Exactly right. It could make for some great flying, 4 wheels in the air, ledge bumps like the one in the recent Moab thread. 5k rpm and let it rip!

WJCO
05-09-2016, 05:01 PM
... it'd be more in the fact that turbos and superchargers tend to have the HP on the high end of the RPM range. In other words, they aren't very useful for rock crawling or for bumping up ledges in Moab. And before all the supercharger fans come on to say otherwise, let me just say that this is just based on what I have seen over the years and I've always been far from impressed. Again, just me.

I'm a forced-air-induction fanboy, yet still completely agree with you. For Jeeping, it's not an ideal setup for the low rpms. But for racing down the roads, they rock.

wayoflife
05-09-2016, 05:02 PM
With all that said, I still think it's cool that Jeep is pushing for more power out of their engines and that they're trying harder to make a more affordable 4-cyl Jeep again. Something we haven't seen since the TJ.

NevadaZielmeister
05-09-2016, 05:05 PM
Every bit of news about the "new" Wrangler makes me happy with my decision to buy the 2016 now. We have been hearing a lot and while new technology can be great, the added issues with new designs that have not been tried bring up all kinds of issues. I have owned and also own a few Turbo aspirated engines (WRX's and now the VW Tiguan) and must say that they are just not designed for off-road.

I agree that there are issues with a dusty environment and the turbo. The turbo's, spinning at 120,000 RPM are held together with liquid bearings, making the need for clean oil critical. Any wearing in that bearing creates a ton of issues with the turbos. I am curious if they can reduce turbo lag though with the variable fin and dual turbo technologies, but at what cost? I already have 285 horses in my current 2016 so why pay a ton more for that extra 15 horses. While I do see some cost savings on the back end, I would need to drive a certain amount of miles to just recoup my costs. For example, I was looking closely at a TDI model for the Toureg. It was $20,000 more!! So that meant that I would NEVER see a cost savings and the TDI would just be cool (until VW ran into their nefarious practices, ahem.)

So for me, as a recent consumer, I am so glad I got my JK now before all of the craziness. :D

Thegreenmachine12
05-09-2016, 05:06 PM
Is there not any concern for a turbo in a dusty / muddy environment? Seems like a recipe for ingestion and early failure, no? On the highway it would be perfect.

Yeah I was wondering the same, I think with a good inlet on the turbo and a good air filter, you should be fine though.

Thegreenmachine12
05-09-2016, 05:09 PM
I'm happy to see that Jeep is bringing back a 4 cylinder option for the Wrangler!

I have to say, while the 2.5 AMC I4 was a bit of a dog, it was nonetheless a torque monster that was inexpensive to maintain and they had a great history of running forever!

The 4 cylinder option will make the Jeep Wrangler more readily available to a broader range of customers, with a lot better fuel mileage and upfront cost of the Jeep, I think you'll see more and more people daily driving them.

It will be interesting to see what the aftermarket will offer for the turbo 4, maybe different tuning or even aftermarket turbo setups. I am intrigued to drive one with a manual transmission, I bet it will be tons of fun!

Thegreenmachine12
05-09-2016, 05:10 PM
I'm a forced-air-induction fanboy, yet still completely agree with you. For Jeeping, it's not an ideal setup for the low rpms. But for racing down the roads, they rock.

Didn't know you had a WRX, Subies rock! They are a ton of fun and pretty dang quick

WJCO
05-09-2016, 05:11 PM
I am curious if they can reduce turbo lag though with the variable fin and dual turbo technologies, but at what cost?

The VGT technology is great in theory, but since it's been out, I have yet to see it perfected. It does eliminate lag, but with the constant heating and cooling, the VGT vanes and actuator get carboned up with exhaust soot very quickly and then the vanes start to stick. I have yet to see this fixed for the long haul. It's a great idea, I just hope it can be perfected.

WJCO
05-09-2016, 05:12 PM
Didn't know you had a WRX, Subies rock! They are a ton of fun and pretty dang quick

Had one about 7 years ago. Great cars. I put about 5k in mods to it and had it running 12s. It was very fun to drive in the mountains. But I'm addicted to mods so I decided to sell it before I went bankrupt!

JeepFan
05-09-2016, 05:27 PM
<RANT>

I'm not sold on this configuration. I wish Jeep would spend more time on quality control and less time on engineering new ways to make the JK/JL more expensive. Can't wait to see the 1st turbo charged 4 cylinder JL pushing 40's! :crazyeyes:

Am I the only one who wonders if the minor increase in fuel economy will offset the price to buy and own one? :thinking:

I seem to recall Jeep tried going the 4 cylinder route a long time ago. I wonder why they stopped producing them? Maybe because they failed to meet consumer expectations?

Here's a thought... Maybe Jeep should build one with a small V8. Just sayin... WHO'S FOR A V8? Come-on people!

</END OF RANT>

sipafz
05-09-2016, 05:28 PM
With all that said, I still think it's cool that Jeep is pushing for more power out of their engines and that they're trying harder to make a more affordable 4-cyl Jeep again. Something we haven't seen since the TJ.


The 4 cylinder option will make the Jeep Wrangler more readily available to a broader range of customers, with a lot better fuel mileage and upfront cost of the Jeep, I think you'll see more and more people daily driving them.

I personally think that this engine will increase the base price, more technology = more $. Truth be told FCA is somewhat unlimited on what they can charge looking at the overall sales of the JK over the years.

Sharkey
05-09-2016, 05:29 PM
<RANT>

I'm not sold on this configuration. I wish Jeep would spend more time on quality control and less time on engineering new ways to make the JK/JL more expensive. Can't wait to see the 1st turbo charged 4 cylinder JL pushing 40's! :crazyeyes:

Am I the only one who wonders if the minor increase in fuel economy will offset the price to buy and own one? :thinking:

I seem to recall Jeep tried going the 4 cylinder route a long time ago. I wonder why they stopped producing them? Maybe because they failed to meet consumer expectations?

Here's a thought... Maybe Jeep should build one with a small V8. Just sayin... WHO'S FOR A V8? Come-on people!

</END OF RANT>

Lol! While I have to agree across the board, I am left wondering if you have had morning gin. Your posts are always more animated after some gin. ;)

And yes, I'm all about the V8.

wayoflife
05-09-2016, 05:31 PM
<RANT>

I'm not sold on this configuration. I wish Jeep would spend more time on quality control and less time on engineering new ways to make the JK/JL more expensive. Can't wait to see the 1st turbo charged 4 cylinder JL pushing 40's! :crazyeyes:

Am I the only one who wonders if the minor increase in fuel economy will offset the price to buy and own one? :thinking:

I seem to recall Jeep tried going the 4 cylinder route a long time ago. I wonder why they stopped producing them? Maybe because they failed to meet consumer expectations?

Here's a thought... Maybe Jeep should build one with a small V8. Just sayin... WHO'S FOR A V8? Come-on people!

</END OF RANT>

LOL!! This for sure ^^^^
Bring on the HEMI and I can assure you that people will buy it :thumb:

WJCO
05-09-2016, 05:31 PM
<RANT>

I'm not sold on this configuration. I wish Jeep would spend more time on quality control and less time on engineering new ways to make the JK/JL more expensive. Can't wait to see the 1st turbo charged 4 cylinder JL pushing 40's! :crazyeyes:

Am I the only one who wonders if the minor increase in fuel economy will offset the price to buy and own one? :thinking:

I seem to recall Jeep tried going the 4 cylinder route a long time ago. I wonder why they stopped producing them? Maybe because they failed to meet consumer expectations?

Here's a thought... Maybe Jeep should build one with a small V8. Just sayin... WHO'S FOR A V8? Come-on people!

</END OF RANT>

Lol. Agreed. The demand for a v8 among Jeep owner's has always been there. You'd think they would have listened by now.

Speeddmn
05-09-2016, 05:40 PM
You know, everyone is all v8 this v8 that... death to the v6, 4 bangers blow... blah blah blah...

Well maybe if we use reverse psychology... and say death to v8's and their dumb awesome power, jeep will ditch the 4 banger and put an 8 cyl in. I actually would like to see a inline 6 again, even with a turbo it would be fun! It might not be practical for Moab, the Rubicon, etc but for top down beach cruising... Every jeep is set up how the owner wants, I just wish Jeep would give us more factory motor options and axle choices....

JeepFan
05-09-2016, 05:41 PM
Lol! While I have to agree across the board, I am left wondering if you have had morning gin. Your posts are always more animated after some gin. ;)

And yes, I'm all about the V8.


LOL!! No Gin yet.. Maybe too much coffee this morning. I'm all jittery; especially after reading this post. I mean, what is the Jeep world coming too? A 4000lb J? with a 4 Banger and a turbo? Must be a mean Joke! Don't even get me started on aluminium body panels!! Okay, maybe IFS/IRS! But Jeep tried that once for 3 seconds. Where is it now, in a fuxking museum?


LOL!! This for sure ^^^^
Bring on the HEMI and I can assure you that people will buy it :thumb:

Mmmmmmmmmm HEMI! I'd buy one in a heart beat!

Thegreenmachine12
05-09-2016, 05:45 PM
I personally think that this engine will increase the base price, more technology = more $. Truth be told FCA is somewhat unlimited on what they can charge looking at the overall sales of the JK over the years.

You're right, didn't think about that. Isn't Ford charging more for the turbo 4 Mustang than the V6?

wayoflife
05-09-2016, 05:48 PM
LOL!! No Gin yet.. Maybe too much coffee this morning. I'm all jittery; especially after reading this post. I mean, what is the Jeep world coming too? A 4000lb J? with a 4 Banger and a turbo? Must be a mean Joke! Don't even get me started on aluminium body panels!! Okay, maybe IFS/IRS! But Jeep tried that once for 3 seconds. Where is it now, in a fuxking museum?



Mmmmmmmmmm HEMI! I'd buy one in a heart beat!

:cheesy: :clap2: :thumb:

Thegreenmachine12
05-09-2016, 05:48 PM
If they put a small geometry turbo on the 4 cyl, I think it would be a low end torque monster and would be awesome for wheeling!

JeepFan
05-09-2016, 05:49 PM
Lol. Agreed. The demand for a v8 among Jeep owner's has always been there. You'd think they would have listened by now.


You know, everyone is all v8 this v8 that... death to the v6, 4 bangers blow... blah blah blah...

Well maybe if we use reverse psychology... and say death to v8's and their dumb awesome power, jeep will ditch the 4 banger and put an 8 cyl in. I actually would like to see a inline 6 again, even with a turbo it would be fun! It might not be practical for Moab, the Rubicon, etc but for top down beach cruising... Every jeep is set up how the owner wants, I just wish Jeep would give us more factory motor options and axle choices....

I have an idea... Let's start a petition to get the Jeep execs to watch the VIDEO - MOBY in MOAB : Golden Spike Jeep Trail / DOUBLE WHAMMY until their eyes bleed. Maybe they'll get the message. :cheesy:

WJCO
05-09-2016, 05:52 PM
I have an idea... Let's start a petition to get the Jeep execs to watch the VIDEO - MOBY in MOAB : Golden Spike Jeep Trail / DOUBLE WHAMMY until their eyes bleed. Maybe they'll get the message. :cheesy:

Lol. And we could have Al Gore sponsor it, so it makes the Jeep look more environmentally friendly too! :thumb:

JeepFan
05-09-2016, 05:56 PM
Lol. And we could have Al Gore sponsor it, so it makes the Jeep look more environmentally friendly too! :thumb:

Of course!!!! Get the guy who invented the Internet! We can't lose! :thumb:

JeepFan
05-09-2016, 06:14 PM
If they put a small geometry turbo on the 4 cyl, I think it would be a low end torque monster and would be awesome for wheeling!

You know, I started to agree with this and then I thought....

1. I'll get a fully loaded Rubicon
2. I'll lift it 3.5"
3. Install 37" tires.
4. Install all EVO aluminum body armor.
5. Winch
6. etc etc etc...

Then, for my first adventure to Moab, I'll load it up with all my camping gear and other crap that barely fits. I'll bring a few spare parts like (a turbo, assortment of nuts and bolts, sector shaft) you know, the essentials.

It would be awesome!

In all seriousness, I understand what you mean and, while I think it would be cool to drive a stock Jeep with a Turbo charged 4 cylinder on the street, I don't think it would be much fun for wheeling. Most of us bought these things so we can build them up and take them places most people would rather avoid.

Right?

But that's just me and I'm hoped up on GIN! ;)

Recurve
05-09-2016, 06:18 PM
Every bit of news about the "new" Wrangler makes me happy with my decision to buy the 2016 now. We have been hearing a lot and while new technology can be great, the added issues with new designs that have not been tried bring up all kinds of issues. I have owned and also own a few Turbo aspirated engines (WRX's and now the VW Tiguan) and must say that they are just not designed for off-road.

I agree that there are issues with a dusty environment and the turbo. The turbo's, spinning at 120,000 RPM are held together with liquid bearings, making the need for clean oil critical. Any wearing in that bearing creates a ton of issues with the turbos. I am curious if they can reduce turbo lag though with the variable fin and dual turbo technologies, but at what cost? I already have 285 horses in my current 2016 so why pay a ton more for that extra 15 horses. While I do see some cost savings on the back end, I would need to drive a certain amount of miles to just recoup my costs. For example, I was looking closely at a TDI model for the Toureg. It was $20,000 more!! So that meant that I would NEVER see a cost savings and the TDI would just be cool (until VW ran into their nefarious practices, ahem.)


So for me, as a recent consumer, I am so glad I got my JK now before all of the craziness. :D


Wait... You just said the Wrx is not designed for off-road? You relize the Wrx is the civilian version of the legendary WRC Wrx rally car right? They have the same motors , just one is built out the ass. Those cars spend 98% of their life plowing through dirt clouds. Their turbos do just fine. Now when you say off-roading do you mean rock crawling ? Then I see your point.
Just Wrx was made for dirt.

trailless
05-09-2016, 06:23 PM
Wait... You just said the Wrx is not designed for off-road? You relize the Wrx is the civilian version of the legendary WRC Wrx rally car right? They have the same motors , just one is built out the ass. Those cars spend 98% of their life plowing through dirt clouds. Their turbos do just fine. Now when you say off-roading do you mean rock crawling ? Then I see your point.
Just Wrx was made for dirt.

But how many times do those motors get rebuilt?

BdugJK
05-09-2016, 06:28 PM
Dare I say every time they change the wrangler we worry, but some how end up loving it!

Thegreenmachine12
05-09-2016, 06:30 PM
You know, I started to agree with this and then I thought....

1. I'll get a fully loaded Rubicon
2. I'll lift it 3.5"
3. Install 37" tires.
4. Install all EVO aluminum body armor.
5. Winch
6. etc etc etc...

Then, for my first adventure to Moab, I'll load it up with all my camping gear and other crap that barely fits. I'll bring a few spare parts like (a turbo, assortment of nuts and bolts, sector shaft) you know, the essentials.

It would be awesome!

In all seriousness, I understand what you mean and, while I think it would be cool to drive a stock Jeep with a Turbo charged 4 cylinder on the street, I don't think it would be much fun for wheeling. Most of us bought these things so we can build them up and take them places most people would rather avoid.

Right?

But that's just me and I'm hoped up on GIN! ;)

Yeah thats a good point. It would have no balls once the Jeep was lifted on big tires and weighed down. So the answer is V8 lol

Sithwindu
05-09-2016, 06:32 PM
Aside for being a motor for the new jl, how does everyone feel about this motor for the wrangler pickup? That seems to have more appeal in my opinion

Recurve
05-09-2016, 06:32 PM
But how many times do those motors get rebuilt?
Any motor will need rebuilt after a certain amount of extreme abuse . Also is that even a complaint? When 3.6 motors in the jk now are being rebuilt under 100,000 miles an they are not turbo charge so what's the problem here?.. I think it's all in the quality an how well built it comes from the factory.
If turbos were a problem in the dirt, then why are all the race teams running turbo motors? Why not just light v8s? Or some type of other NA platform? It works, an WRC take serious abuse.
Now river crossings, big mud holes, rock crawling is completely different an I feel it's best reserved for a healthy NA v8.

Thegreenmachine12
05-09-2016, 06:33 PM
You know, I started to agree with this and then I thought....

1. I'll get a fully loaded Rubicon
2. I'll lift it 3.5"
3. Install 37" tires.
4. Install all EVO aluminum body armor.
5. Winch
6. etc etc etc...

Then, for my first adventure to Moab, I'll load it up with all my camping gear and other crap that barely fits. I'll bring a few spare parts like (a turbo, assortment of nuts and bolts, sector shaft) you know, the essentials.

It would be awesome!

In all seriousness, I understand what you mean and, while I think it would be cool to drive a stock Jeep with a Turbo charged 4 cylinder on the street, I don't think it would be much fun for wheeling. Most of us bought these things so we can build them up and take them places most people would rather avoid.

Right?

But that's just me and I'm hoped up on GIN! ;)

I've got a buddy that is running 38" Super Swampers on his YJ with a 2.5, AX5, & 5:38 gears. He doesn't use 4th or 5th gear anymore lol

MR.Ty
05-09-2016, 06:33 PM
I know this is an engine configuration thread but may I just say that I do like that concept top in the first post.

I'd like for my hard top to have the ability to take the side and rear glass out.

Hobolobo
05-09-2016, 06:34 PM
Wait... You just said the Wrx is not designed for off-road? You relize the Wrx is the civilian version of the legendary WRC Wrx rally car right? They have the same motors , just one is built out the ass. Those cars spend 98% of their life plowing through dirt clouds. Their turbos do just fine. Now when you say off-roading do you mean rock crawling ? Then I see your point.
Just Wrx was made for dirt.

While I do agree with 99.9% of this post, I would like to point out that rally does not necessarily equal off road. By that I mean its still a "road" just a dirt one that is still relatively well packed down.

Thegreenmachine12
05-09-2016, 06:35 PM
I know this is an engine configuration thread but may I just say that I do like that concept top in the first post.

I'd like for my hard top to have the ability to take the side and rear glass out.

Would it be the same mechanism as they have on the renegade with the MySky panels?

Thegreenmachine12
05-09-2016, 06:37 PM
While I do agree with 99.9% of this post, I would like to point out that rally does not necessarily equal off road. By that I mean its still a "road" just a dirt one that is still relatively well packed down.

I don't know man, i've seen some rallies with some pretty nasty muddy and bumpy terrain, rally cars take a pretty good beating. But they certainly couldn't take on the big obstacles that Jeeps can!

I have seen some pretty gnarly Subarus on 40's in Moab though lol

MR.Ty
05-09-2016, 06:39 PM
Would it be the same mechanism as they have on the renegade with the MySky panels?

I'd assume it'd be something like that. Best top came close with their hybrid soft/hard top (cannot remember the name) but not quite like the OP picture.

Recurve
05-09-2016, 06:40 PM
While I do agree with 99.9% of this post, I would like to point out that rally does not necessarily equal off road. By that I mean its still a "road" just a dirt one that is still relatively well packed down.

I've kept up with WRC a lot, an yes your right it is just dirt roads, an on rainy seasons it's mud. On a side note , I've watched one car be engulfed by dirt for miles because they are tailing another car. Those cars just run.

WJCO
05-09-2016, 06:41 PM
I think of Rally style being much faster and performance oriented, whereas Jeeping is about getting out and exploring at a much slower pace. Both are off-road, but two different categories. That's how I see it.

No Overlanding posts, please, lol.

NevadaZielmeister
05-09-2016, 06:43 PM
Wait... You just said the Wrx is not designed for off-road? You relize the Wrx is the civilian version of the legendary WRC Wrx rally car right? They have the same motors , just one is built out the ass. Those cars spend 98% of their life plowing through dirt clouds. Their turbos do just fine. Now when you say off-roading do you mean rock crawling ? Then I see your point.
Just Wrx was made for dirt.

Right, take the Subura WRC and compare it to a street vehicle. Yes, that makes complete sense.

In reality, the street car you get and the race version are COMPLETELY different. I am sure you and I can agree on that. But what we do with our Jeeps is pretty rough and we would definitely see some issues with LONG TERM usage. The WRC cars have their turbos available with a vending machine. Two completely different animals.

Recurve
05-09-2016, 06:50 PM
Right, take the Subura WRC and compare it to a street vehicle. Yes, that makes complete sense.

In reality, the street car you get and the race version are COMPLETELY different. I am sure you and I can agree on that. But what we do with our Jeeps is pretty rough and we would definitely see some issues with LONG TERM usage. The WRC cars have their turbos available with a vending machine. Two completely different animals.

I compared them because they still have to stay in the factory class of that motor. Just built out the ass lol.

Also what we do with our jeeps is very rough and 3.6 does have long term issues as well.
So something is not working here ? Lol , that's why we are debating if a turbo 4 banger could hold up.

2nd.gunman
05-09-2016, 09:00 PM
I've driven the AMG CLA45 both on road and on a race track and that thing is a beast! If this new jeep engine is anything like it I think it will be good fun.

The better Twin scroll turbo engines have very linear power delivery and plenty of Low end torque compared to a traditional turbo setup

WJCO
05-10-2016, 03:41 PM
Didn't know you had a WRX, Subies rock! They are a ton of fun and pretty dang quick

I just found some pics of the old beast. I sure miss this thing, brings back memories. Just found out a friend of mine is getting one and he said he'll let me help him work on it. :D

202761

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202760

GraniteCrystal
05-10-2016, 04:16 PM
I just found some pics of the old beast. I sure miss this thing, brings back memories. Just found out a friend of mine is getting one and he said he'll let me help him work on it. :D

202761

202759

202762

202760

My friend had one of those. Absolutely awesome to drive. STi even better. I'd probably get in a lot of wrecks if I had one.