Coil over gurus need help

[qwasin]

And before anyone gets the wrong idea let me add some disclaimers to everything I said.

My posts were made in the context of OP's desires for a high up-travel, low ride height desert/dune rig. And I feel that if OP didn't want to chop through his tub and move the shock towers up into the engine bay, then a 10" shock like the king king PR2010-CO would have been the way to go, as opposed to whatever piece of crap system Rebel sent him.

And since a lot of you guys run the 12" shocks in the stock wheel wells with the EVO kits I think that's perfectly fine if:
1. You run 40s and need a 3" or more bumpstop anyway
2. You run 37s but crawl rocks and prefer maximum droop at the expense of up-travel
3. You run 37s and are content with a 5-6" lift

Not that you need my approval either way!

 

[thardy]

Rock Krawler too I guess...

Apparently. Everyone that makes coil and shock kits that supply 3" bumpstops with a 3" lift must have it wrong too.

 

[Skid_Kid]

Par for the course with a 12" shock. Read through the EVO coilover threads on this forum you will see the same thing. A 12" shock on 35s or 37s is dumb as hell on a JK because of how well 37s can stuff up into the wheel well with flat fenders and minor trimming. Yea you'll have 3" of up travel and 9" of droop, that's nice. I would rather have 5" of up travel and 5" of droop. For rock crawling and general trail use some people will tell you that 1/3 up travel and 2/3 droop is perfectly acceptable and that's a valid opinion. Not what I would prefer, but valid. However, coilovers really shine in the high speed stuff, where most experienced builders will tell you at least 50/50, or even 2/3 up 1/3 droop. So as it sits now OP, you have high dollar coilovers built for speed but set up for low speed articulation that you could accomplish with any $100 shock and some coil retainers. Your solutions are either mount the coilovers higher in the tub or raise your ride height. With the latter being exponentially easier.

You are a friggin dumbass and do not know anything about how to set up a rig.

 

[qwasin]

Then why mention JKF?

Giving credit to the owners/builders/assemblers of those rigs.

And you're saying that EVO has it all WRONG with their DTD setup?

Nope! See my previous post.

So you're claiming that someone can run 37s up front by only adding a 1" bump stop extension?

Yep! With fenders and minor trimming obviously.

 

[qwasin]

Apparently. Everyone that makes coil and shock kits that supply 3" bumpstops with a 3" lift must have it wrong too.

Yep! They supply those massive bumpstops so 35s wont rub the factory fenders. Remember, off the shelf lifts cater to the lowest common denominator.

You are a friggin dumbass and do not know anything about how to set up a rig.

Thank you for your contribution to this thread.

 

[thardy]

Giving credit to the owners/builders/assemblers of those rigs.



Nope! See my previous post.



Yep! With fenders and minor trimming obviously.

Way to back track. Not sure you realize this, but the majority of people on this forum don't jump their JK, so droop is rather important.

There's absolutely NO way a 37 will tuck into the front fender with only a 1" bump, flat fenders and minor trimming. I've personally had to add 2" bump stop extenders, on top of having a 1" puck on the PR44 to a rig that has barely any fender at all and a 2.5" lift. It was rubbing bad. So.....

 

[Skid_Kid]

Yep! They supply those massive bumpstops so 35s wont rub the factory fenders. Remember, off the shelf lifts cater to the lowest common denominator.



Thank you for your contribution to this thread.

Thank you for not contributing at all and just spitting rubbish. The EVO DTD is exactly what the OP needs. Out of all the crap you have spit out, how many of those set ups have done the Hammers, Vegas to Reno, and Baja, not to mention been all over the country? Sounds like since he spends 80% of his time in the desert it is a no brainer. Go back to JKF and have fun learning nothing.

 

[qwasin]

Way to back track. Not sure you realize this, but the majority of people on this forum don't jump their JK, so droop is rather important.

Agreed. But if droop is all you're after than any $85 12" stroke shock will do the job just as well as a $1000 CO. Just need to figure out how to keep your springs from falling out I guess.

There's absolutely NO way a 37 will tuck into the front fender with only a 1" bump, flat fenders and minor trimming. I've personally had to add 2" bump stop extenders, on top of having a 1" puck on the PR44 to a rig that has barely any fender at all and a 2.5" lift. It was rubbing bad. So.....

Well, YMMV. I did say "as little as a 1 inch bumpstop". It depends on what fenders you run (if any) and what you consider "minor" trimming. I have gone back and forth to an RTI ramp with my buddy dialing in his bumpstops with 37" MTRs. He runs a hockey puck and a stack of washers on top, probably comes out to about 1.5" overall. Clears just fine. I personally run 35" crawlers (which fit like some of the smaller 37s) with a hockey puck and have room to spare.

Thank you for not contributing at all and just spitting rubbish. The EVO DTD is exactly what the OP needs. Out of all the crap you have spit out, how many of those set ups have done the Hammers, Vegas to Reno, and Baja, not to mention been all over the country? Sounds like since he spends 80% of his time in the desert it is a no brainer. Go back to JKF and have fun learning nothing.

Really dude? You deduced that OP needs a $6000-$8000 suspension system after a one paragraph post on the internet? Because all I can see is that clearly the shock is too big for what he wants or needs.

 

[WJCO]

I'm completely ignorant on the subject of coil overs, and have no advice to offer, but I'll sit back and watch this thread.

 

[13_gecko_rubi]

Yep! With fenders and minor trimming obviously.

This is definitely not true of 37s. Rather than just spit claims a picture is worth a thousand words. I will say that if you plan to run only on the street 1" bumpstop may work with 37s but if you want any type of articulation it absolutely wont.

Here is a picture of my rig running 12" coilovers fully flexed out. As you can see the passenger tire is into the fender. It rubs just slightly which is exactly where I want it. This is with 3" bump stop extensions. Assuming I cut away 2" of my fender I guess I could run 1" bumpstops. But the drag link is also <1" from contacting the frame with high steer in this same setup. Again, I could notch the frame I guess to get a little more uptravel. I wouldn't call notching the frame and cutting out a lot of the fender, body frame horns, etc "minor trimming". If you are doing go fast type stuff and never articulating I guess you could make 1" work.

 

[qwasin]

Thanks for the constructive post Gecko and good point about the high steer. I assumed with OP wanting a relatively low lift he would be running the stock drag link. And yes, compressing your suspension in a straight up and down fashion will pose less clearance problems than articulation. And again, OP said he spends 80% of the time in the desert, and it appears that his fenders are trimmed quite a bit closer to the body than yours are, and I based my posts on that.

 

[13_gecko_rubi]

Thanks for the constructive post Gecko and good point about the high steer. I assumed with OP wanting a relatively low lift he would be running the stock drag link. And yes, compressing your suspension in a straight up and down fashion will pose less clearance problems than articulation. And again, OP said he spends 80% of the time in the desert, and it appears that his fenders are trimmed quite a bit closer to the body than yours are, and I based my posts on that.

Sure thing. I thought posting an actual picture and clearance issues I have experienced more constructive than "you don't know what you are talking about" in a post. LOL

There are plus and minus / compromises to any add on suspension system. Short of building your own chassis where you can put everything exactly where you want it you need to set yours up to how you plan to drive. Mine is low as I do mainly rock crawling. If by chance I go to the dunes I jack it up an inch or two to get more uptravel but this is rare. High speed = me doing stupid shit that is likely to end badly!

 

[Skid_Kid]

Agreed. But if droop is all you're after than any $85 12" stroke shock will do the job just as well as a $1000 CO. Just need to figure out how to keep your springs from falling out I guess.



Well, YMMV. I did say "as little as a 1 inch bumpstop". It depends on what fenders you run (if any) and what you consider "minor" trimming. I have gone back and forth to an RTI ramp with my buddy dialing in his bumpstops with 37" MTRs. He runs a hockey puck and a stack of washers on top, probably comes out to about 1.5" overall. Clears just fine. I personally run 35" crawlers (which fit like some of the smaller 37s) with a hockey puck and have room to spare.



Really dude? You deduced that OP needs a $6000-$8000 suspension system after a one paragraph post on the internet? Because all I can see is that clearly the shock is too big for what he wants or needs.

I said exactly what he needs, not what he will get. The EVO Double D Pro would be more his style. Also a proven product.

 

[13_gecko_rubi]

I said exactly what he needs, not what he will get. The EVO Double D Pro would be more his style. Also a proven product.

If you are planning on going high speed a lot that system will work good in the front but will still struggle with the rear end still. I run essentially that system. If you want your rig to stay low you wont have much rear uptravel. Its because the way the shock are set up on the JK. If you want a lot of uptravel in the rear you are going to be restricted to EVOLever DTD or custom frenching in coilovers or lifting your rig up higher. The Double D works as well as a system can without major fab work. All the systems for the JK except the EVOLever DTD struggle for this just because of how the rear shock setup on the JK is designed. Unless you want to cut into your tub or french in mounts your choices are rather limited.

 

[qwasin]

Sure thing. I thought posting an actual picture and clearance issues I have experienced more constructive than "you don't know what you are talking about" in a post. LOL

There are plus and minus / compromises to any add on suspension system. Short of building your own chassis where you can put everything exactly where you want it you need to set yours up to how you plan to drive. Mine is low as I do mainly rock crawling. If by chance I go to the dunes I jack it up an inch or two to get more uptravel but this is rare. High speed = me doing stupid shit that is likely to end badly!

I hear you.

One thing I forgot to mention when discussing your rig is that a shorter stroke on the drooped side will offer a slight bit more clearance on the stuffed side while articulating, since your axle will be at a more aggressive angle with a longer shock with respect to your frame, all else being equal. Anybody want to do some trigonometry?

I said exactly what he needs, not what he will get. The EVO Double D Pro would be more his style. Also a proven product.

Fair enough.

 

[thardy]

Agreed. But if droop is all you're after than any $85 12" stroke shock will do the job just as well as a $1000 CO. Just need to figure out how to keep your springs from falling out I guess.

You really think that simply running a longer generic shock would be anywhere near comparable to a PROPERLY setup coilover system? :naw:

Well, YMMV. I did say "as little as a 1 inch bumpstop". It depends on what fenders you run (if any) and what you consider "minor" trimming. I have gone back and forth to an RTI ramp with my buddy dialing in his bumpstops with 37" MTRs. He runs a hockey puck and a stack of washers on top, probably comes out to about 1.5" overall. Clears just fine. I personally run 35" crawlers (which fit like some of the smaller 37s) with a hockey puck and have room to spare.

How much lift is your buddy running to be able to run 1.5" bumpstop and 37s? How much trimming has been done? :thinking:

To address the OP's situation, he try to put a custom spec CO that was built "the way he wanted" that was a 12" CO with a 16" body. It's pretty easy to answer the question as to why he isn't getting much up travel. The top of the CO needs to be mounted higher up, but he went with the Rebel "kit" with a custom CO, not designed to work with that setup. If he had gone with the 12" CO and 12" body, he would inherently have more up travel.

You coming on here and spitting out claims like "A 12" shock on 35s or 37s is dumb as hell on a JK because of how well 37s can stuff up into the wheel well with flat fenders and minor trimming." and "Because everyone here seems completely unaware that you can run a 37" tire up front with as little as a 1" bump stop." you must be some sort of genius that should be teaching us all on the workings of a JK suspension. So please, preach away.

 

[13_gecko_rubi]

I hear you.

One thing I forgot to mention when discussing your rig is that a shorter stroke on the drooped side will offer a slight bit more clearance on the stuffed side while articulating, since your axle will be at a more aggressive angle with a longer shock with respect to your frame, all else being equal.

Yes it would for sure. But I would then have the both sides 2" higher which means a lower belly to get stuck on in the rocks. An issue the 4 door already struggles with. Your point is valid though.

 

[Havoc40]

I'm curious on the shock location with the Rebel kit and if their hoop puts the centerline of the upper shock mount lower than EVO's kit. I run my 12" coilovers at about 4" of lift with the supplied 4" bumps. It is no where near coil bind at full bump with room in the fender and about 2" of drag link to frame clearance. I need to put in some 3" bumps like 13_gecko_rubi!

EDIT: Didn't see the fact that he was running a 16" body...that solves my question!

Ride height


Checking clearance

 

[13_gecko_rubi]

I'm curious on the shock location with the Rebel kit and if their hoop puts the centerline of the upper shock mount lower than EVO's kit. I run my 12" coilovers at about 4" of lift with the supplied 4" bumps. It is no where near coil bind at full bump with room in the fender and about 2" of drag link to frame clearance. I need to put in some 3" bumps like 13_gecko_rubi!

EDIT: Didn't see the fact that he was running a 16" body...that solves my question!

Ride height
View attachment 174237

Checking clearance
View attachment 174236

Since you are in the local area come "check the clearances" offorad with us. Much better picture than a forklift LOL

This is how mine sits at ride height. the rear is a little high in the picture because it is empty. Its set up for fully loaded.

 

[qwasin]

You really think that simply running a longer generic shock would be anywhere near comparable to a PROPERLY setup coilover system? :naw:

In terms of basic measurements when it comes to droop and up travel, absolutely, it would be identical. As far as ride quality, handling, etc etc, there would be a big difference.

How much lift is your buddy running to be able to run 1.5" bumpstop and 37s? How much trimming has been done? :thinking:

Lift has nothing to do with how much bump stop you need unless we are talking about a body lift.

To address the OP's situation, he try to put a custom spec CO that was built "the way he wanted" that was a 12" CO with a 16" body. It's pretty easy to answer the question as to why he isn't getting much up travel. The top of the CO needs to be mounted higher up, but he went with the Rebel "kit" with a custom CO, not designed to work with that setup. If he had gone with the 12" CO and 12" body, he would inherently have more up travel.

You coming on here and spitting out claims like "A 12" shock on 35s or 37s is dumb as hell on a JK because of how well 37s can stuff up into the wheel well with flat fenders and minor trimming." and "Because everyone here seems completely unaware that you can run a 37" tire up front with as little as a 1" bump stop." you must be some sort of genius that should be teaching us all on the workings of a JK suspension. So please, preach away.

I agree, the language I used earlier was inappropriate and too generalizing.

Yes it would for sure. But I would then have the both sides 2" higher which means a lower belly to get stuck on in the rocks. An issue the 4 door already struggles with. Your point is valid though.

Absolutely.

I'm curious on the shock location with the Rebel kit and if their hoop puts the centerline of the upper shock mount lower than EVO's kit. I run my 12" coilovers at about 4" of lift with the supplied 4" bumps. It is no where near coil bind at full bump with room in the fender and about 2" of drag link to frame clearance. I need to put in some 3" bumps like 13_gecko_rubi!

EDIT: Didn't see the fact that he was running a 16" body...that solves my question!

Yep if your shocks aren't bottomed out and you have clearance for more up travel, definitely get some smaller bump stops. That's what I was alluding to with lifts coming with "lowest common denominator" or "one size fits all" bump stops.