Control arms. Teraflex or Metalcloak
- Thread starter Anvil JKUR
- Start date
chitown35
LOSER
What happened in that pic? Was it installed bound up and then popped out?
The bushings are supposedly not supposed to move much in the metal, just twist.
Sent from my galaxy s5 but it would've been quicker to drive my jeep there and tell you.
Clevite bushings have rubber bonded onto steel collars and get pressed into a control arm. They are the ONLY maintenance free joint available being that they can ONLY twist and have NO moving parts. The Metalcloak joints require a special lube to install them into a control arm and contrary to what you seem to believe, there is nothing preventing them from rotating inside of it and they DO. I have personally installed and bench tested them and have verified as much. It is in part what makes them work better than bonded rubber bushings but anything that has moving parts really NEEDS to be maintained.
QuicksilverJK
Caught the Bug
This is exactly what I expect to happen sooner or later. The joints work well, but I wish they had taken servicing them into account when they designed them. I plan on upgrading to Johny joints as they wear out.
Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
chitown35
LOSER
Yeah I'm not saying they CAN'T move in the joint, just that the majority of their movement seemingly comes from twisting (EDIT: I think I remember there being some ridges on the rubberish material to help stop the movement). Of course it all likely depends on how much articulation the arms see too. So yes, they do need the the lube they come with. How well that lube stays effective and in the joint, I don't know. Just saying that MC seems to think it's not something to worry about. If it were, wouldn't we probably hear a lot more than just a handful of stories about that kind of thing happening?
That still doesn't answer the question of why that specific pic you posted got messed up. Improper install? Bad materials? Or excessive use -> lube gone or ineffective? I don't think we can answer that just from a single picture.
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:cheesy: Apparently, you only know what you've been sold and don't have a clue as to how joints work. When you tighten your control arm bolts to 120 ft. lbs. of torque, you are effectively clamping the crush sleeve passing through the joint and preventing it from moving. On a Clevite or bonded rubber bushing like you'd find on a factory control arm, this forces the rubber in the joint to twist as the arm moves up and down with the articulation of the axle. In the case of something like a Johnny Joint, the spherical ball is essentially the crush sleeve and the urethane bushings rotate around it. On a Metalcloak joint, the rubber is bonded to the spherical ball and while it will twist with the angle of the axle, there is nothing to prevent it from rotating inside the control arm housing. This is why you need to apply a special lube to the bushing when installing it. The fact that you haven't seen or heard of more of these joints go bad is most likely because guys like you believe they are the best thing since sliced bread, have been sold on the idea that they're somehow indestructible, are maintenance free and haven't bothered to take them apart to see if they've gone bad. You can drive on a blown joint for a long time and most people don't even know it. Of course, I can't make this shit up and have no need to. You of course can believe whatever it is you want to believe.
chitown35
LOSER
You say I apparently don't know how joints work, yet you didn't disagree with anything I said except that you say they move completely freely in the joint and I say not completely freely due to the ridges helping to hold it...?
Sent from my galaxy s5 but it would've been quicker to drive my jeep there and tell you.
Your tires have ridges and yet they don't seem to do a whole lot on ice. Rubber joints with ridges won't do a whole lot when you have to install them with a special lube. When the lube dries up, they will offer more resistance or at least, until they wear out. But hey, who needs to bother with a silly thing like maintenance.
Anvil JKUR
New member
I see this is quite the can of worms I opened. If I may chime inn. I agree with the Guru. I have played with similar types of bushings before and it never fails. if there is no lubricant then all pressure or resistance will be put on the strongest point of movement which is center bushing. if the outer edge can not follow or keep up with center movement then it will fail. I have read some fine print with MC and the bushings they use. It sounds like they are still doing some field testing since that bushing is a patent pending part. These are just my thoughts or the way I look at things.
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Sent from my iPad using WAYALIFE mobile app
chitown35
LOSER
Ok, I'll stop buying siped tires since they're useless.
Sent from my galaxy s5 but it would've been quicker to drive my jeep there and tell you.
eh, doesn't really make a difference what you buy if you believe they'll never wear out like your super awesome maintenance free Metalcloak joints. :cheesy:
chitown35
LOSER
I never said they wouldn't wear out eventually. I passed along info that MC said you don't need to relube them.
Sent from my galaxy s5 but it would've been quicker to drive my jeep there and tell you.
chitown35 said:
Funny, I could have sworn you said, and I quote "there is no need to grease the joints, they are essentially maintenance free." Never heard of a moving part that doesn't need regular maintenance especially one with ridges that are supposed to offer resistance to rotation. :cheesy:
Speaking of which, I'd be interested to hear just how much effort you've found is needed to rotate a Metalcloak joint inside the control arm. I'm sure I haven't done nearly as much testing as you have but here are a few joints that I've had a chance to tinker with.
chitown35
LOSER
Tires are essentially maintenance free, but they still wear out. See where I'm going?
How much effort? I've only messed with the arms when one end is physically installed but the arms themselves move easily up to a certain point, then it becomes more difficult. How do you propose I quantify that? Anyway I imagine this transition is from just twisting up the rubber to actually moving it inside the joint.
So maybe if you're mostly on road then you want as little rotation of the bushing inside the metal as possible to prevent premature wear. But I guess if you trailer to the trail and are immediately and mostly at extreme articulation the entire time, I could see where you want a joint you can keep lubed up or rotating freely. I don't think that's the majority of the market though. And I don't know how many cycles of bushing movement against the metal it takes to wear the bushings.
Sent from my galaxy s5 but it would've been quicker to drive my jeep there and tell you.
chitown35
LOSER
Ok so as far as how fast they wear out, here's an idea: https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=jXzyl3k8e1E
That being said, it's a single success story so I give it as much credence as a single picture.
Sent from my galaxy s5 but it would've been quicker to drive my jeep there and tell you.
That being said, it's a single success story so I give it as much credence as a single picture.
Sent from my galaxy s5 but it would've been quicker to drive my jeep there and tell you.
A rubber joint with ridges that help provide resistance is like a tire pushing across the ground with the brakes on. See where I'm going?
Your Jeep weighs 5,000 lbs. or more. Your axle weighs a couple hundred pounds - maybe more depending on what you have. You say that rotating the joint becomes "more difficult" by hand (although I would disagree) but it wouldn't take much for that much weight on both ends plus gravity to move it around.
Every driveway you pull into, every speed bump you hit, every turn you take, every time you start or stop, etc. will all cause your suspension to move and in most cases, by quite a bit. Certainly, way more than I think you're imagining unless you're Jeep has a shitty hard ride.
Unlike you, I don't need to rely on "IF's" and guessing based on my imagination. I can only work off of what I've seen. But hey, that's just me. Clearly, you can believe whatever it is you want to believe especially if it helps you to sleep better at night.
Wow, a Metalcloak video with guys they sponsored talking about how awesome their joints are based on 1 race and a whopping 950 miles on them. I'm so impressed :yawn37: :naw: