HELLO : An Introduction to MoTech and LS Swaps

MOTECH

New member
Ive actually had a question about your swaps,
Say someone wanted to do an ls swap but wanted stay on small budget in the beginning, if you swap in a 6.0 ls, and then down the road want to upgrade to the 6.2 truck motor ls, would there need to be significant changes to the harness that you supply?

All the Gen IV truck engines have the same architecture so interchangeability is good. To go from a 6.0 to a 6.2 would not require much, basically a reprogram of the ECM, BCM and TCM; most all of the hardware is the same.

Try and stick with 2010 or newer engines and transmissions. 2010+ powertrains are for the most part all compatible, they use similar modules and calibrations. 2007-9 LS engines can be difficult to work with because the conflicts they have with specific OS's, it's best to avoid them but we can support them if you have one.

You can use 2 or 4WD 6l80's with our kit, the 2WD does require a little extra work to get to work. We can also support the 4WD 6l90 transmission if you have an Atlas and in some cases with the 241J.

 

DWiggles

Caught the Bug
Hey, just a quick question. I'm still researching but am looking into your kit. Do you guys offer anything for manual guys who want to stay manual? I know you recommend the 6l80e, but have you any experience with an 6.2l LS3 paired with say, a T56 or TR6060 6 speed manual in a wrangler?
 

highoctane

Caught the Bug
The info in this tread is great! Motech if I were to look for a L83 5.3 engine, what year/make/model vehicle should I get one out of? I know it needs to be '15 or newer if I want it to pass emissions (if I were to ever move out of AZ I'd want that). Pretty much all of the engines I've looked at on Ebay are out of Chevy/GMC trucks and Chevy Tahoes. Price is MUCH cheaper than I thought it would be for a low mileage L83. The L86 is a good bit more, but the power numbers on the L83 look great. On the L83, it gets a power bump on E85 fuel of about 30 hp and tq. Would the Gen V swaps you do keep that flex fuel ability when swapped into a JK? Is the 8L80 a thing you are for sure doing? Would the 8L80 be a better trans in a heavy JK than the 6L80? I live in northern AZ (lots of steep mount climbs on the highway) and imagine the extra gears would be an advantage. The slightly lower 1st gear I imagine would be nice for crawling.
 

GraniteCrystal

New member
Here's my plan, curious to hear your thoughts. I have a 2014 JKUR with 38k miles on it. I'm doing about 10k miles a year so let's say it lasts me till it hits 200k miles in 16 years. At that point the JL is well retired, people are driving J_ and I'm driving something that's looking pretty old school but want to keep forever. Still possible to do an LS swap at that point or will it be impossible to find the right engine, parts, and shop to do it?
 

Benito

Caught the Bug
Here's my plan, curious to hear your thoughts. I have a 2014 JKUR with 38k miles on it. I'm doing about 10k miles a year so let's say it lasts me till it hits 200k miles in 16 years. At that point the JL is well retired, people are driving J_ and I'm driving something that's looking pretty old school but want to keep forever. Still possible to do an LS swap at that point or will it be impossible to find the right engine, parts, and shop to do it?

I think that at that point our jeeps are going to be free from any sort of emissions crap and we'll be able to swap in anything we want!
 

WJCO

Meme King
I think that at that point our jeeps are going to be free from any sort of emissions crap and we'll be able to swap in anything we want!

I sure hope that's the case. But I see the future as more and more control in the name of the environment.
 

Benito

Caught the Bug
I sure hope that's the case. But I see the future as more and more control in the name of the environment.

With that said, let's be realistic, our jeeps won't be DD, and more than likely there will be better motors that will make more power and be more "environmentally friendly" than what we have now, so an LS swap then will be like a Carbureted GM 350 now!
 

MOTECH

New member
The info in this tread is great! Motech if I were to look for a L83 5.3 engine, what year/make/model vehicle should I get one out of? I know it needs to be '15 or newer if I want it to pass emissions (if I were to ever move out of AZ I'd want that). Pretty much all of the engines I've looked at on Ebay are out of Chevy/GMC trucks and Chevy Tahoes. Price is MUCH cheaper than I thought it would be for a low mileage L83. The L86 is a good bit more, but the power numbers on the L83 look great. On the L83, it gets a power bump on E85 fuel of about 30 hp and tq. Would the Gen V swaps you do keep that flex fuel ability when swapped into a JK? Is the 8L80 a thing you are for sure doing? Would the 8L80 be a better trans in a heavy JK than the 6L80? I live in northern AZ (lots of steep mount climbs on the highway) and imagine the extra gears would be an advantage. The slightly lower 1st gear I imagine would be nice for crawling.

We are currently doing an L83 and L86 swap. The prices of the Gen V engines are finally starting to drop, and in the case of the 5.3 drop fast. We went through the same thing with the Gen IV engines when they were released, the yards held the prices up for a couple years until the supply was greater than demand. I'll try and get some pictures up soon.

A few interesting points with the Gen V swap:

The Gen V engines run aggressive AFM(4 cylinder mode). As with any variable displacement system when running on fewer cylinders intake vacuum drops. AFM/DOD's primary benefit is reducing pumping losses under part throttle conditions, hence less vacuum for braking. Both the LT and Pentstar engines run brake booster pressure sensors, but unlike the Pentstar's electric vacuum pump the Gen V engines run a belt driven vacuum pump. This means sufficient vacuum will be available at all times, even at low idle so you can stop 40's.

With aggressive AFM redesigned the motor mounts. When in 4 cylinder mode vibrations can be a problem. We have always run the proper hydraulic motor mounts with our conversions and now we are gearing up for the larger Gen V liquid filled mount.

The Gen V engines run electric power steering so there is no power steering pump. We are designing billet brackets for all our swaps and have purchased a VMC and Turning center so we can produce them in house. The new brackets require no alignment and will support the factory JK accessories, lines and hoses. One advantage is no custom parts to search for, they are available at your local dealer. Anyway we will support the OE PS pump as well as PSC and the other aftermarket PS pumps if you have hydraulics.

We are supporting the 8l80 transmission. The low and high gears of the 8l80 are similar to the 6l80 so I have to believe it is a move for efficiency. I'm not sold on the 8 speed transmission yet; I was disappointed with the Chrysler 8 speed I drove it never seemed happy in any gear and was always shifting. Small displacement engines and diesels like more gears to keep them in their optimal power band, but with a large V8 with lots of torque I feel the 8 speed is less useful. In a 200 mph Corvette 8 speeds make sense, in a 90 mph JK not so much. We will see after I do my testing the mpg increase may be worth it.

With the Gen IV engine I do not recommend the 5.3 for heavy JK's running in the mountains. The 5.3 is only 1.5 liters larger than the 3.8 and does not have the inherent torque to move the the weight as efficiently as the 6.0 and 6.2. The 5.3 will go into open loop(or into performance enrichment) to pull a hill where the larger engines will stay in closed loop running leaner in a higher gear. The Gen V engines may change that because with direct injection, contentious VVT and higher compression more torque will be available due to the higher cylinder pressures.

Gen IV and up engines use virtual flex fuel technology. Unlike the old days they do not run an expensive hard FF sensor. Each fuel has it's stoichiometric point, at stoich the oxygen content is about 1.5%. You breathe about 21% oxygen so primary air(air into the intake) goes from 21 to 1.5% when it exits the exhaust. Narrow band oxygen sensors can precisely determine one O2 level, and that is 1.5%. Wide-band O2's are another story. So by the OS looking at the O2 content in the exhaust it can determine the percentage of alcohol in the fuel. Stoich for pure gas is about 14.7:1 but most of us are running 10-15% alcohol so stoich for most of us is about 14.2:1. This means if you have a FF engine it will run on FF. After 2010 almost all LS's went to FF capability. FF engines, especially engines like the LC8 6.0(gas, alcohol, natural gas) run non corrosive components and hardware as well as updated heads to handle the corrosive nature of the fuel. Unfortunately North American JK's are not set up for FF and the fuel system components may be damaged if you run it. Chrysler did sell FF JK's in Europe, they have a different color fuel cap and assembly.
 

MOTECH

New member
Here's my plan, curious to hear your thoughts. I have a 2014 JKUR with 38k miles on it. I'm doing about 10k miles a year so let's say it lasts me till it hits 200k miles in 16 years. At that point the JL is well retired, people are driving J_ and I'm driving something that's looking pretty old school but want to keep forever. Still possible to do an LS swap at that point or will it be impossible to find the right engine, parts, and shop to do it?

We might be installing Hydrogen engines at that point lol. We recently did a retro swap using a early 60's 283 small block so anything is possible.
 

MOTECH

New member
I sure hope that's the case. But I see the future as more and more control in the name of the environment.

I have been a level 2(2G) State emission technician and inspector going on 20 years, and I worked in California. I finally was able to talk with a California Referee supervisor yesterday at length, and things are looking better. We have over 25 LS JK's certified in California now and I heard rumors California has lifted the 3/8 year waiting period on modifications. The Supervisor confirmed it is true, there is no more waiting period so we can now legally swap 16's. California is requiring converted vehicles have zero monitors unset and as usual all the hardware and software from the donor vehicle brought over plus pass inspection.

This is not an issue for us as we run pure operating systems with all monitors, enhanced DTC's, Mode 6 data and drive cycles supported. I have had a number of guys come in with other swaps that had their tags pulled because the emission labs are stepping up enforcement on monitors running and setting; so just setting the monitors to not supported no longer works.

This is good news and will make the swap available to many customers in CA that have been waiting. And if history repeats itself the other states will follow California's lead.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
I have been a level 2(2G) State emission technician and inspector going on 20 years, and I worked in California. I finally was able to talk with a California Referee supervisor yesterday at length, and things are looking better. We have over 25 LS JK's certified in California now and I heard rumors California has lifted the 3/8 year waiting period on modifications. The Supervisor confirmed it is true, there is no more waiting period so we can now legally swap 16's. California is requiring converted vehicles have zero monitors unset and as usual all the hardware and software from the donor vehicle brought over plus pass inspection.

This is not an issue for us as we run pure operating systems with all monitors, enhanced DTC's, Mode 6 data and drive cycles supported. I have had a number of guys come in with other swaps that had their tags pulled because the emission labs are stepping up enforcement on monitors running and setting; so just setting the monitors to not supported no longer works.

This is good news and will make the swap available to many customers in CA that have been waiting. And if history repeats itself the other states will follow California's lead.

Wow! Not that I'd need it anymore but this is great news for all the guys in CA that are wanting to do an LS swap. Thanks for posting this up :thumb:
 

HighwayTrout

Active Member
So awesome!
This is exactly why an LS swap was never even a thought for me. I didn't want to deal with the headaches of smoging a motor swapped vehicle.
 

MOTECH

New member
Here are some pictures of the Gen V 6.2 before we drop the body. You can see the belt driven vacuum pump which should give us adequate braking even at idle. Looks like we can now run the full size truck exhaust manifolds.

IMG_20160802_102332.jpg IMG_20160802_102243.jpg
 

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aTX427

New member
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but a year later - what is your recommendation for a low hassle middle of the road swap? 6.2L LS3 2010 and newer with a 6L80?
 
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