Roof Rack + Snorkel = Overland?

[3RD KNUT]

I'm not sure what "overland" is supposed to mean either. Particularly here in the states, I think the more appropriate term would be a "wilderness" Jeep. To me, travel in the wilderness requires many things the most important of which are (1) the ability to self-rescue because of the inability to obtain assistance or reach civilization in less than one day's hike and (2) self-sustenance without the need for re-ration or support (food, water, equipment, etc.) from civilization for the period of time traveled.

Depending on your mode of travel, and the topography of what is to be traveled, the gear you bring to satisfy (1) and (2) above will obviously change. I fail to see how having a flip-top tent on the roof of a Jeep makes it more wilderness capable than another Jeep that has a 4-season tent or bivy sack stored in a bag in the back. Actually, I can think of many reasons why the latter would be a MUCH better way to go than the former. (If your Jeep becomes inoperable in the wilderness, it's pretty hard to carry your flip top tent on your back to use as shelter on your multi-day hike out...oh, and there is that whole weight savings thing.) I also fail to see how a Jeep with 35's and a standard lift is somehow more wilderness capable than a Jeep turning 40's with coilovers. The only argument I could see is if the distance traveled is so great that the relative difference in gas mileage becomes an issue which cannot be planned for through preparation (i.e. bringing extra gas). Here in the states though (particularly the lower 48), that problem seems unlikely.

I guess my point is that "overland" has become more of a cliche for a type of look and less of a definition of capabilities. If your Jeep is built to cover the terrain you plan to cover, and you have the ability to fix it and perform self-rescue, then the rest really comes down to what else you throw in the back and what you have between your ears, not how the Jeep was built. Just my .02.

+1 for Sharkey. I think he nailed it.

 

[taher2.1]

Ok, this is much better...

I had to upgrade the steering system but for someone like me, I rather spend money on better camping gears than heavily modifying JK.
I prefer long trip so saving on gas and having everything I need inside the JK would be nice...
Alaska trip still in planning

 

[wayoflife]

Ok, this is much better...

I had to upgrade the steering system but for someone like me, I rather spend money on better camping gears than heavily modifying JK.
I prefer long trip so saving on gas and having everything I need inside the JK would be nice...
Alaska trip still in planning

But, I already have better camping gear and much better tools, recover equipment and know how to use them than most people who wear the title of "overland" on their shirt sleeves. Unless you're satisfied with what you have, time will affording you more opportunities to get more stuff. Time can also teach you more things about your Jeep like how NOT to break it in the first place and how to help fix other peoples less capable rigs when they do.

I too prefer long trips and having everything I need inside my JK and even things that other people might need as well. I would be the first to admit that gas is an issue but, at least here in America, it's nothing a little planning can't help you deal with.

 

[taher2.1]

But, I already have better camping gear and much better tools, recover equipment and know how to use them than most people who wear the title of "overland" on their shirt sleeves. Unless you're satisfied with what you have, time will affording you more opportunities to get more stuff. Time can also teach you more things about your Jeep like how NOT to break it in the first place and how to help fix other peoples less capable rigs when they do.

I too prefer long trips and having everything I need inside my JK and even things that other people might need as well. I would be the first to admit that gas is an issue but, at least here in America, it's nothing a little planning can't help you deal with.

If we are are talking about in USA only than anything can be done with planning and you are right there is no difference than fuel economy only
Take the trip Don is planning for August. The fuel cost total will be around $24000. That is a lot so JK will smaller tires and mods will do better

I am going to overland Expo in May so maybe I will find a better answer for you or I will raise the same questions over there and see what they have to say

 

[wayoflife]

If we are are talking about in USA only than anything can be done with planning and you are right there is no difference than fuel economy only
Take the trip Don is planning for August. The fuel cost total will be around $24000. That is a lot so JK will smaller tires and mods will do better

I am going to overland Expo in May so maybe I will find a better answer for you or I will raise the same questions over there and see what they have to say

yeah, i am speaking of here in america only. overseas in a place like australia or africa, you can't even build up a vehicle like a jeep and have it be legal. there, they don't prefer to build "overland" vehicles, they have to.

 

[mmccurdy]

Take the trip Don is planning for August. The fuel cost total will be around $24000. That is a lot so JK will smaller tires and mods will do better

I am going to overland Expo in May so maybe I will find a better answer for you or I will raise the same questions over there and see what they have to say

Holy crap -- where the hell is Don going in August? $24K is a lot of fuel even @ $5/gal!

 

[Indefatigable]

Holy crap -- where the hell is Don going in August? $24K is a lot of fuel even @ $5/gal!

Go north of the 49th and gas starts at $5.40/ US gal. Remote areas expect upwards of 25% or more premium on that price.

Makes my Rubicon trip in July seem like a gas price holiday!

 

[taher2.1]

Holy crap -- where the hell is Don going in August? $24K is a lot of fuel even @ $5/gal!

I am actually talking about total combined gas money for the trip to east coast not Don only...

 

[mmccurdy]

Go north of the 49th and gas starts at $5.40/ US gal. Remote areas expect upwards of 25% or more premium on that price.

Makes my Rubicon trip in July seem like a gas price holiday!

Sure, but for $24K you can drive from NY to LA ten times even using very conservative numbers... either Don has something pretty incredible up his sleeve (in which case I want in :thumb or there's an extra zero somewhere in there...

 

[wayoflife]

Sure, but for $24K you can drive from NY to LA ten times even using very conservative numbers... either Don has something pretty incredible up his sleeve (in which case I want in :thumb or there's an extra zero somewhere in there...

i think he's calculating all the jeeps that would be going and their total consumption there and back.

 

[taher2.1]

i think he's calculating all the jeeps that would be going and their total consumption there and back.

Yes :thumb:

 

[mmccurdy]

Yes :thumb:

Makes sense, sorry for the hijack. Back to your regularly-scheduled spirited debate! :beer:

 

[wayoflife]

okay, here's another one to throw out there - if MPG is really a concern when it comes to "overland", how much mpg is lost through resistance and drag caused by a bulky roof rack or light bar? also, while big tires may reduce your mpg, wouldn't hauling a ton of gear do that too? last but not least, why not run a more street tread looking tire like falken's? with less rolling resistance, they WILL give you more mpg - trust me, i have tested them out and they really do give you on average about 4 mpg extra.

 

[Indefatigable]

All things being equal, the only thing I have found to hurt my mileage (aside from driving style) is tire tread and transmission.

My club has a fair number of LJs in various sizes, so we compare mileage on long trips.

Most of our driving is in mountain conditions.

37" Trxus tires on a LJ 6SPD gets the same mileage as a 33" BFG MT tire LJ weighing easily 500lbs less.
I swap to Pit Bull Rockers and I lose 3MPG.
Almost exact same set up LJ as me but with Auto trans. gets about 3MPG worse than me. 37" GY MTR on it VS my 37" Trxus

Rooftop accessories do hurt mileage, but its quite minimal at lower speeds. Noticeable at freeway speeds.

Again, these vehicles have very bad air dynamics to start with anyways, so more drag is not going to change much. Where as the frictional area on the tires can have a more pronounced effect.

 

[wayoflife]

All things being equal, the only thing I have found to hurt my mileage (aside from driving style) is tire tread and transmission.

My club has a fair number of LJs in various sizes, so we compare mileage on long trips.

Most of our driving is in mountain conditions.

37" Trxus tires on a LJ 6SPD gets the same mileage as a 33" BFG MT tire LJ weighing easily 500lbs less.
I swap to Pit Bull Rockers and I lose 3MPG.
Almost exact same set up LJ as me but with Auto trans. gets about 3MPG worse than me. 37" GY MTR on it VS my 37" Trxus

Rooftop accessories do hurt mileage, but its quite minimal at lower speeds. Noticeable at freeway speeds.

Again, these vehicles have very bad air dynamics to start with anyways, so more drag is not going to change much. Where as the frictional area on the tires can have a more pronounced effect.

yeah, i was referring to roof racks at highway speeds. sure, jeeps are bricks in the wind anyway but, adding a brillo pad on top certainly doesn't help anything. i used to have one on our old TJ and even without a load up top, i could just feel it robbing me of any forward motion i had on the freeway - of course, on top of being loud as hell.

 

[Wowos]

yeah, i am speaking of here in america only. overseas in a place like australia or africa, you can't even build up a vehicle like a jeep and have it be legal. there, they don't prefer to build "overland" vehicles, they have to.

I can tell you guys something about how it is here in Poland if you want to

I'll start with the fact, that probably most of your jeeps wouldn't be legal to drive on public streets. For example the whole tire must be covered by fender.


(on the picture my truck - as you can see I used additional rubber fender flares to cover the tire)

Both front and rear fog lamps are obligatory, same refers to licence plates. Also amount of additional front lights is limited to 4 (as I remember).
You can't use aftermarket hydraulic steering components (so no more PCS or similar).
I need to ask my police friends to confirm that, but I'm quite sure that driving without doors is also prohibited.

Those are only a few of all regulations... :crazyeyes:

Tomorrow I'll write something about this "overland vs offroad" vehicles "competitions", because here we've got this "problem"


Interesting detail - did you knew that one of main reasons which prompted BFGoodrich to came up with KM2s was fact, that European Union released new regulations about "noise emissions" ? Funny thing is that they only refers to cars or light trucks, when most of road noises are produced by heavy transporting trucks... :doh:

 

[wayoflife]

I can tell you guys something about how it is here in Poland if you want to

I'll start with the fact, that probably most of your jeeps wouldn't be legal to drive on public streets. For example the whole tire must be covered by fender.


(on the picture my truck - as you can see I used additional rubber fender flares to cover the tire)

Both front and rear fog lamps are obligatory, same refers to licence plates. Also amount of additional front lights is limited to 4 (as I remember).
You can't use aftermarket hydraulic steering components (so no more PCS or similar).
I need to ask my police friends to confirm that, but I'm quite sure that driving without doors is also prohibited.

Those are only a few of all regulations... :crazyeyes:

Tomorrow I'll write something about this "overland vs offroad" vehicles "competitions", because here we've got this "problem"


Interesting detail - did you knew that one of main reasons which prompted BFGoodrich to came up with KM2s was fact, that European Union released new regulations about "noise emissions" ? Funny thing is that they only refers to cars or light trucks, when most of road noises are produced by heavy transporting trucks... :doh:

oh, i'm sure in europe, it's got to be real tough for you to do anything. i'll be intersted to hear about the "problem" you have over there

 

[taher2.1]

I will never get a roof rack or roof tent but I love how fast you can deploy those. :thumb:

I don't think the debate can end because there is no difference between Mobi or overland JK but end of the day...Do I really need 37 or 40 and the other mods that are required. I don't and my pocket wont allow me so I get a ARB fridge, Heater, water heater and make all of that run with dual battery and solar power...

I really want one of these but too Overland for me

 

[piginajeep]

to me being overland means being self sufficient. If it breaks, you need to have the tools, parts and knowledge to get off the trail or to safety.


its not being on a trail in the east coast where its a walk to the parking lot or a short hike to gain phone reception. Its being out in the desert or mountains with no phone reception for miles....



You need to build the vehicle for your trails and your knowledge on how to fix it. This is why I work on my own jeep and know every part that goes on it.

It does no good to have a built jeep on 40's if you dont know how to fix it. Same goes for a stock Jeep:twocents:

 

[wayoflife]

so, having said all that, if money were no object, would you still purposfully build an "overland" jeep?