Steering...again

1

132JKPNW

New member
I'm pretty sure my steering box is developing significant play Causing me to fight my steering wheel. I've gone through everything else steering wise and everything is tight. I'm running my track bar or toe a 1/8th in and now getting what I suppose is bump steer like crazy. How do I confirm for sure that my steering box is the problem? Also, with a Dana 30 (soon to be a PR), is it worth upgrading to hrydro now until I can afford a PR? I'm running 35s now with a plan to stretch my 2dr 6-9" rear only and running 37s-40s. By the way, it is a daily driver for at least another year until it's paid off. Any advice is much appreciated.


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Skip the hydro until you have your issue fixed and have the 37s, my opinion. How many miles on the Jeep? Very unlikely it's the steering box. Toe and track bar aren't related at all. What's your lift height? What exact symptom are you having?
 
WJCO said:
Skip the hydro until you have your issue fixed and have the 37s, my opinion. How many miles on the Jeep? Very unlikely it's the steering box. Toe and track bar aren't related at all. What's your lift height? What exact symptom are you having?
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3.5inch lift with 32k. 26k on the lift. Exact symptom is i have about 2-3 inches (all of a sudden) of steering wheel movement before my steering corrects around 45-50 MPH on off camber shitty MS roads. There is no "loose" feeling, just sloppy if that makes sense. Wheel bearings are iffy at this point. I don't have a method (yet) of measuring the play, but its the first ive noticed any play in my wheel bearings and its minimal (and i mean minimal for a NON Jeep bearing) to a pry bar check. Would that cause that significant play?
 
WJCO said:
Skip the hydro until you have your issue fixed and have the 37s, my opinion. How many miles on the Jeep? Very unlikely it's the steering box. Toe and track bar aren't related at all. What's your lift height? What exact symptom are you having?
Click to expand...

One other thing, ive been running the FOX ATS SS (I know, I know) for the past 8 months or so, always on the looser side. Today i bumped it up to the firmer side and is held a much straighter line. Could this SS possibly cause premature wear on my steering box due to the resistance so other people can be aware if it was the case.
 
A 16th inch of play underneath can cause a good inch of empty steering wheel travel at moderate speeds. It is very unlikely the steering box is failed at that mileage. I would have someone turn the wheel while you watch the steering box input and output. If they're turning at the same time, the box is probably good. Next thing, completely remove the stabilizer and go drive the Jeep. The stabilizer itself may be binding, not uncommon.
 
So I had my wife jump in and move the steering wheel and there is quite a bit of movement before the pitman are moves. So next question- should I be concerned about any complete failure with slop like this as a daily driver?



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132JKPNW said:
So I had my wife jump in and move the steering wheel and there is quite a bit of movement before the pitman are moves. So next question- should I be concerned about any complete failure with slop like this as a daily driver?



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Click to expand...

Roughly how many degrees is the input shaft turning before the pitman arm moves? Like 45, 90? Also, Any chance there is anything else loose like the pitman arm nut or splines? You can look over this thread too and possibly adjust the gear box: http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?33667-Steering-box-problems

Personally, if it has a ton of free play and you've been fighting it, I wouldn't drive it. You lose steering and bad things happen.
 
132JKPNW said:
So I had my wife jump in and move the steering wheel and there is quite a bit of movement before the pitman are moves. So next question- should I be concerned about any complete failure with slop like this as a daily driver?



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Click to expand...

Is there any movement of the sector shaft before it starts to turn, side to side or otherwise? Can you see the input turn before the output (sector shaft) moves? Unless the sector shaft is physically compromised, you are probably OK to drive for a while, but I would always recommended making plans to replace a sloppy box.

If you have slop in your box you can adjust it, but I wouldn't recommend doing it unless your box is on its way out because it will cause accelerated wear, but it's a band aid in some cases. There are instructions for this on the interwebs, but I urge caution.

If you determine that your box is toast, I'd recommend installing a fresh one with some sort of sector shaft reinforcement and that bugger will last a long time. Synergy and JKS both make really nice ones.
 
132JKPNW said:
3.5inch lift with 32k. 26k on the lift. Exact symptom is i have about 2-3 inches (all of a sudden) of steering wheel movement before my steering corrects around 45-50 MPH on off camber shitty MS roads. There is no "loose" feeling, just sloppy if that makes sense. Wheel bearings are iffy at this point. I don't have a method (yet) of measuring the play, but its the first ive noticed any play in my wheel bearings and its minimal (and i mean minimal for a NON Jeep bearing) to a pry bar check. Would that cause that significant play?
Click to expand...

Did you happen to install a dropped pitman arm with your lift? A lot of what you're describing sounds like a pitman arm that isn't fully seated on the splines of your sector shaft. This is a common problem with dropped pitman arms as they are all pretty much made by the same manufacturer and they have a sloppy fit. To make matters worse, you can tighten up the nut to the proper torque setting but it will stop at the base of the splines and not do anything to prevent the slop. In the past, when I was running a dropped pitman arm and I had this problem, I was able to install a large washer to help push the pitman arm higher up on the splines and that fixed the problem.

Another thing you mentioned is that you have bumpsteer. This would be something you'd feel if in fact your track bar and drag link weren't parallel with each other. Another reason why I ask if you have a dropped pitman arm installed because if you do and don't have a track bar relocation bracket installed, that would cause what you're feeling.
 
Trail Jeeps said:
Is there any movement of the sector shaft before it starts to turn, side to side or otherwise? Can you see the input turn before the output (sector shaft) moves? Unless the sector shaft is physically compromised, you are probably OK to drive for a while, but I would always recommended making plans to replace a sloppy box.

If you have slop in your box you can adjust it, but I wouldn't recommend doing it unless your box is on its way out because it will cause accelerated wear, but it's a band aid in some cases. There are instructions for this on the interwebs, but I urge caution.

If you determine that your box is toast, I'd recommend installing a fresh one with some sort of sector shaft reinforcement and that bugger will last a long time. Synergy and JKS both make really nice ones.
Click to expand...

So my steering column will rotate some bit before my sector shaft. Nothing is loose, or nothing feels loose like a bad bearing or anything and there is no side to side movement. Almost like the gears have worn out on the inside if there are. Ive considered adjusting it but that gets so many mixed opinions ive steered clear. Maybe when i get closer to upgrading ill do that as a bandaid. And i will most certainly be getting a sector shaft brace.
 
132JKPNW said:
So my steering column will rotate some bit before my sector shaft. Nothing is loose, or nothing feels loose like a bad bearing or anything and there is no side to side movement. Almost like the gears have worn out on the inside if there are. Ive considered adjusting it but that gets so many mixed opinions ive steered clear. Maybe when i get closer to upgrading ill do that as a bandaid. And i will most certainly be getting a sector shaft brace.
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You do NOT need a stupid sector shaft brace. Back in the CJ and even TJ days, they were nice to have but in the 10 years I have been working on JK's, I have yet to see where one is needed.
 
wayoflife said:
Did you happen to install a dropped pitman arm with your lift? A lot of what you're describing sounds like a pitman arm that isn't fully seated on the splines of your sector shaft. This is a common problem with dropped pitman arms as they are all pretty much made by the same manufacturer and they have a sloppy fit. To make matters worse, you can tighten up the nut to the proper torque setting but it will stop at the base of the splines and not do anything to prevent the slop. In the past, when I was running a dropped pitman arm and I had this problem, I was able to install a large washer to help push the pitman arm higher up on the splines and that fixed the problem.

Another thing you mentioned is that you have bumpsteer. This would be something you'd feel if in fact your track bar and drag link weren't parallel with each other. Another reason why I ask if you have a dropped pitman arm installed because if you do and don't have a track bar relocation bracket installed, that would cause what you're feeling.
Click to expand...

Negative on the pitman arm, OEM and never tampered with until i recently checked the nut, which was tight (didn't put a torque wrench on it tho...). Picture to follow on my steering set up.
 
132JKPNW said:
So my steering column will rotate some bit before my sector shaft. Nothing is loose, or nothing feels loose like a bad bearing or anything and there is no side to side movement. Almost like the gears have worn out on the inside if there are. Ive considered adjusting it but that gets so many mixed opinions ive steered clear. Maybe when i get closer to upgrading ill do that as a bandaid. And i will most certainly be getting a sector shaft brace.
Click to expand...

How much does your input shaft/steering wheel move before your sector shaft does? Picture it like a circle. Are we talking like 45 degrees or more like 90 or more even?
 
132JKPNW said:
Negative on the pitman arm, OEM and never tampered with until i recently checked the nut, which was tight (didn't put a torque wrench on it tho...). Picture to follow on my steering set up.
Click to expand...

Well, if it were me, I would start with the free stuff. Tighten it up to 185 ft. lbs. of torque just to make sure it's not your problem.

WJCO said:
How much does your input shaft/steering wheel move before your sector shaft does? Picture it like a circle. Are we talking like 45 degrees or more like 90 or more even?
Click to expand...

This ^^^ How much movement are we talking about here?

Also, is there any chance that maybe you've hit your steering stabilizer wheeling? Any chance the shaft is bent or the can slightly crushed?
 
Maybe this was covered already but have you double checked to make sure your drag link turnbuckle bolts are on tight?
 
Just to rule out the stabilizer, I would take it off and test drive the Jeep. Just to see. Stabilizers can be very deceiving in hiding issues and it's the one part you can't get inside of to really see if something is wrong with it.
 
wayoflife said:
Maybe this was covered already but have you double checked to make sure your drag link turnbuckle bolts are on tight?
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They are tight. Does the drag link sleeve look light it might be threaded out too far? Ive never adjusted it personally, always been firestone.
 
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