Chinese Made Jeeps

[NFRs2000NYC]

The funny thing is, at the time, the Japanese were actually making a much better product and America got scared and started to behave like isolationists. Of course, depending on who you talk to, things worked out for the better anyway because Japan did start making factorys here and started to employ Americans - in other words, it benefitted us with better products and with more jobs. I'm sure this is totally selfish of me to say but, I don't know how building plants in China will help us.

The same reason why the US doesn't grow bananas. Allow me to elaborate, and this is textbook talking, not so much "the reality." We have a finite amount of workforce and a finite amount of land. With the demand we have in this country, we can't really do it all on our own, so we prioritize. It is economically beneficial for us to import our bananas and coffee, and use the land/workforce for something else. Now, America generally makes it's money on services. Unskilled labor is generally not a "cornerstone" of the US culture (don't mistake that for hard work.) Furthermore, unions have made unskilled labor prohibitively expensive. Most Americans don't want to nail a door panel in place for $4 an hour. China on the other hand, has plenty of low skill workforce, and in China $4 an hour is a far better salary than the average local wage, so everyone wins. Part of this is to blame on our demand for cheap stuff. Part of it can be blamed on unions. However, a global economy is inevitable with this many mouths to feed and desires to satisfy.

 

[Indefatigable]

Not exactly. Only on certain models - not all.

That is why I put YMMV

the motor from my 8274-50 was Brazil. Considering this is one of the most expensive winches in their lineup....

:standing wave:

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

You are right to all a Zeon a mid level winch and I cannot say with certainty that is made 100% here in America. However, I do know that their premium winches are in fact made 100% here in America.



That may be true but I personally have not see the quality of their products stand up to the products made here in America or at least consistently. And, even if some Americans are employed by the retailer TransAmerica, I personally would prefer to see more employed by American manufacturers as well. Of course, that's just me.



Can't argue with that. Walmart and the like do exists soley because most Americans demand it and/or don't really care about it. So long as it's cheap, that's all they care about.

True, but again, it's not an either or. Someone that can afford an EVO bumper will get an EVO bumper and not cross-shop a Smittybilt. However, if there was a bumper store like WAYALIFEBumpers.com, what do you think would be better for your business? Just selling high dollar American made products, or all of the above? The more you sell, the more employees you hire (probably Americans) the more corporate taxes you will pay, etc etc. Hell, take a look at Chrysler vs Toyota. I don't have the numbers offhand, but Toyota is a Japanese based company, so the money flows back there, BUT, how many Americans does Toyota employ (factory workers, dealers, secretaries, detailers, mechanics, etc etc etc...how much money does toyota generate for Americans (parts makers, independent mechanics, etc.)

Imagine Jeep was a 100% owned and built in China company and they imported all the JKs to the US...sure, the money goes back to China, but they would need dealers here right? Also, companies like LOD, EVO, etc etc all exist because of these vehicles, which again, creates jobs, etc.

Now, I also agree with you that the quality is not on par (US vs China) however, Japan vs US or Germany vs US is often far superior. Some of us are lucky to be able to afford premium parts. Some people can't and that's cool too. Some don't want to pay a huge markup for products that have essentially nearly identical performance for far less outlay (LED lighting.) Its all relative I guess.

 

[wayoflife]

The same reason why the US doesn't grow bananas. Allow me to elaborate, and this is textbook talking, not so much "the reality." We have a finite amount of workforce and a finite amount of land. With the demand we have in this country, we can't really do it all on our own, so we prioritize. It is economically beneficial for us to import our bananas and coffee, and use the land/workforce for something else. Now, America generally makes it's money on services. Unskilled labor is generally not a "cornerstone" of the US culture (don't mistake that for hard work.) Furthermore, unions have made unskilled labor prohibitively expensive. Most Americans don't want to nail a door panel in place for $4 an hour. China on the other hand, has plenty of low skill workforce, and in China $4 an hour is a far better salary than the average local wage, so everyone wins. Part of this is to blame on our demand for cheap stuff. Part of it can be blamed on unions. However, a global economy is inevitable with this many mouths to feed and desires to satisfy.

I think you've misunderstood me as I understand and agree with what you are saying here but, it doesn't change the fact that I often find what is made in China is often times substandard to what I would prefer. Please read that one carefully, WHAT I WOULD PREFER. I personally would and do pay more for products that I think are made better but, that's just me. If you're cool with cheap Chinese made products, more power to you. Trust me, I am not here to try and convince you of otherwise.

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

It will be as helpful to Americans as building Japanese car plants in America was helpful for the Japanese.

Look at Japan now. Not doing so well.

Unfortunately, the way things are. China has the US by the short hairs.

There are only a few countries that can effect China. Those countries are those who ship large quantities of fuel and raw materials to China. The only bargining chip left, but they are so desperate to sell to help their economies now, long term planning is forgotten.

What do you mean by it's not doing so well? Maybe we are talking about different things or maybe I missed something, but it's still one of the largest world economies, the companies are massive and are earning massive amounts of money, and they have one of the best workforces in the world. The Japanese companies probably employ close to 500,000 people in the US, maybe even more. Economically, the US is in TERRIBLE financial shape, as you may or may not have noticed everytime you go food shopping.

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

I think you've misunderstood me as I understand and agree with what you are saying here but, it doesn't change the fact that I often find what is made in China is often times substandard to what I would prefer. Please read that one carefully, WHAT I WOULD PREFER. I personally would and do pay more for products that I think are made better but, that's just me. If you're cool with cheap Chinese made products, more power to you. Trust me, I am not here to try and convince you of otherwise.

Oh I totally get that. That reply was more of a textbook general reply on the subject of economy rather than particular products. I totally agree with you. When it comes to car parts, the Chinese stuff rarely cuts the mustard for me, so you and I are in the same boat.:thumb:

 

[wayoflife]

True, but again, it's not an either or. Someone that can afford an EVO bumper will get an EVO bumper and not cross-shop a Smittybilt. However, if there was a bumper store like WAYALIFEBumpers.com, what do you think would be better for your business? Just selling high dollar American made products, or all of the above? The more you sell, the more employees you hire (probably Americans) the more corporate taxes you will pay, etc etc. Hell, take a look at Chrysler vs Toyota. I don't have the numbers offhand, but Toyota is a Japanese based company, so the money flows back there, BUT, how many Americans does Toyota employ (factory workers, dealers, secretaries, detailers, mechanics, etc etc etc...how much money does toyota generate for Americans (parts makers, independent mechanics, etc.)

Imagine Jeep was a 100% owned and built in China company and they imported all the JKs to the US...sure, the money goes back to China, but they would need dealers here right? Also, companies like LOD, EVO, etc etc all exist because of these vehicles, which again, creates jobs, etc.

Now, I also agree with you that the quality is not on par (US vs China) however, Japan vs US or Germany vs US is often far superior. Some of us are lucky to be able to afford premium parts. Some people can't and that's cool too. Some don't want to pay a huge markup for products that have essentially nearly identical performance for far less outlay (LED lighting.) Its all relative I guess.

You're absolutely right, I do find that Japanese, German and even Korean products can be far superior to American made products but, I have not found that to be the case with Chinese. Of course, were not talking about Japanese, German and even Korean products here, just Chinese.

Having said that, I can and do choose to to pay for premium parts because out on the trail, I want to know that I can trust in what I have to work and work well. If I can't afford it, I save up until I can but I admit, that just me. Unlike you, I am not here to try and convice you to think like me.

 

[wayoflife]

Oh I totally get that. That reply was more of a textbook general reply on the subject of economy rather than particular products. I totally agree with you. When it comes to car parts, the Chinese stuff rarely cuts the mustard for me, so you and I are in the same boat.:thumb:

Okay, I think we're on the same boat now here.

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

You're absolutely right, I do find that Japanese, German and even Korean products can be far superior to American made products but, I have not found that to be the case with Chinese. Of course, were not talking about Japanese, German and even Korean products here, just Chinese.

Having said that, I can and do choose to to pay for premium parts because out on the trail, I want to know that I can trust in what I have to work and work well. If I can't afford it, I save up until I can but I admit, that just me. Unlike you, I am not here to try and convice you to think like me.

I'm definitely not trying to convince anyone to think anything, I just thought were talking. I meant no offense by it, and if that's how it came across, my apologies.

 

[wayoflife]

I'm definitely not trying to convince anyone to think anything, I just thought were talking. I meant no offense by it, and if that's how it came across, my apologies.

:cheesy: Nobody is offended here and we are just talking but from where I stand, it sure did sound like you were trying to convince me to think like you. I understand your position and understand it's just how the world works - I just can't say that I'm a fan of it. C'est la vie

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

:cheesy: Nobody is offended here and we are just talking but from where I stand, it sure did sound like you were trying to convince me to think like you. I understand your position and understand it's just how the world works - I just can't say that I'm a fan of it. C'est la vie

Believe me, I'm not the LEAST bit a fan of it. I remember when I bought my first Panasonic VCR (made in Japan) it lasted nearly 16 years. My first Freidrich window AC (made in the USofA) lasted the better part of 20 years. Believe me, I don't like the plastic fantastic throw away products. Im just like you, I don't like it, but understand and accept the fact that this is the way the economy functions now, and there isn't much we can do. I still shop at Walmart for some items like everyone else, and I try to get products with a quality build, but often times, it's easier said than done. I have always done what you do as well, if I can't afford a certain part, I don't buy a cheaper part, I just wait until I can afford a quality part that will last the life of the car, the house, etc.:thumb:

 

[MAMUT]

Well.. what can we do. Hopefully it will make the one's we already have go up in value.

 

[BlackRockBurner]

Unfortunately, countries do not sell oil to China : international corporations sell the oil. The new high value trade item is rare earth metals for advanced electronics and magnets. And guess which country has the major world supply? The fear is China will control the supply as DeBeer controls diamond supply. Thus America re- opened the mines to get the ore, but Chinas reserves are much larger. Times are changing.

A recent economic labor impact study shows that when a Walmart opens, the existing local employment is negatively affected. For every job position that Walmart creates, 1.5 existing local jobs are lost. And that lost job usually had higher pay and health benefits.

 

[Hightower]

After working in the Middle East in the oil gas industry , I am going pay a lot more attention to where things I buy are made. The Chinese people I'm am working with are terrific but the state run Drlling rig company we are working with keeps its people away from home for up to 4 months. If they complain no problem they can go home and pack up because their house is owned by the company. Not to mention that all the technology on the rig is cheap knock off of the American or Canadian original equipment.

 

[wayoflife]

So, it looks like the Cherokee will be the first Jeep to be made in China and called a Journey...

Journey, Cherokee to be made in China

According to China Car Times, Fiat-China CEO Franco Amadei signed an agreement with Guangzhou Auto and the government of Hunan to bring 2014 Jeep Cherokee to the brand new Changsha plant, which was finished in late 2012. The plant currently makes just the Fiat Viaggio sedan, essentially a Dodge Dart with a less expensive suspension, but has the capacity to build 140,000 vehicles per year, at least double expected Viaggio volume.

The Fiat Freemont, a rebadged Dodge Journey, is also to be built in Changsha, according to the report; currently all Freemonts are built in Mexico.

The article noted that a Viaggio hatchback is due for Chinese production this year. An American Dodge Dart hatchback has been rumored as well.

Cherokee production in the United States is unlikely to be affected by this agreement. (Thanks, RVC)

http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2013/06/journey-cherokee-made-in-china

 

[GCM 2]

So, it looks like the Cherokee will be the first Jeep to be made in China and called a Journey...

For some reason I have a really hard time believing these (cheaper to produce in China models) will not make it here :doh:

 

[wayoflife]

For some reason I have a really hard time believing these (cheaper to produce in China models) will not make it here :doh:

Well, they may not import completed versions of these to America but, I have little doubt that many of the parts made for it, will be.

 

[GCM 2]

Well, they may not import completed versions of these to America but, I have little doubt that many of the parts made for it, will be.

I will completely agree.

 

[jnabird333]

I work in Automation... Word on the street is that China labor costs will surpass ours mid next year. (Keep in mind that there are other cost advantages when manufacturing in China). Many large companies have begun to move manufacturing back to to this side of the globe. Unfortunately it seems about 50% of it may be headed south to Brazil. Never-the-less there has been a steady increase in US manufacturing over the past two years. I realize this isn't what the news says, and I know it may not seem like it but it's true. The problem is, the manufacturing environment has changed. I have programmed machines in VERY large facilities that pump out product with less than a dozen workers. There really isn't a place for "the operator" anymore. Manufacturing jobs are technical. The jobs are in the design and maintenance of machines, not the operation of them. Believe-it-or-not one of the largest resistances to manufacturing returning is having the skilled labor. There is a MAJOR shortage of these skills in the US. (I feel this everyday in my work).

My main point to this is that it will be increasingly common to manufacturing components close to where the resources are. China has the market on rare-earth metals and Iron. (actually they don't on Iron, but they have little regulation on it's processing so it's cheap). Final assembly however, will be done where it will be sold. Luckily for us, the US is a consumer based economy, (We buy a lot). Another advantage we have over the next century is our Natural Gas. We have a crap load, and new technologies are allowing us to get it. This means energy will be cheap, and where energy is cheap, stuff is made.

I think the "Made-in-Chine" stickers have meet their peak. I know this isn't what's in the news, but the news has an agenda, and a doom-and-gloom outlook sells. I see it from a different side... Just my :twocents: