PR60 (Hard Core package) hydro assist

[Buster3479]

That is where I moved my ram to also. BUT, the cheap tie rod bent all the way in and still crunched the ram and fittings.


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That's a pretty slick looking setup. The EVO skid, and are those the EVO high steer kit tie rod and draglink mounted in the lower positions with heims?

That's not the Dynatrac tie rod. That's something nicer looking, but with heims?

Oh, I forgot to mention the splines on my driver's rear shaft have been twisted since my 2nd wheeling trip on the axles. 37's and a stock motor.

 

[RSQCON]

For those thinking you can just buy an off the shelf tie rod for this setup... it's shorter than anything I could find for a JK. The only solution I could find for 1/16-1/8" of toe was a custom one.

GenRight and RPM Fab both offer hi steer arms for the PR60. As for the tie rod length Dynatrac told me 55.35" center to center. I just replaced mine and am close to 55.5" with 1/8-1/16" toe in.

 

[RSQCON]

Oh, I forgot to mention the splines on my driver's rear shaft have been twisted since my 2nd wheeling trip on the axles. 37's and a stock motor.

:question: How do you know this? Not saying it isn't true but Dynatrac has a 1 year no fault warranty...why didn't you get replacements from them?

 

[Buster3479]

GenRight and RPM Fab both offer hi steer arms for the PR60. As for the tie rod length Dynatrac told me 55.35" center to center. I just replaced mine and am close to 55.5" with 1/8-1/16" toe in.

55.5" is exactly what I had custom made for the same toe in. Thanks for the hi steer arm info.

 

[Buster3479]

:question: How do you know this? Not saying it isn't true but Dynatrac has a 1 year no fault warranty...why didn't you get replacements from them?

I've had them approximately a year, and was only able to get 2 wheeling trips on them last year. I don't own a trailer and they haven't been road worthy. Frankly I got to the point of being fed up, and done with the Jeep last year after all the trouble. It was only recently when I tore down the rear end to rebuild the hub bearings that I discovered it.

I should give them a call and see if they'll honor it, but I think they are probably as tired of dealing with me as I am with these axles.

If I was able to twist it on a Rausch or Windrock trail on 37's...... how long will the replacement last? It's not broken, just....twisted in the manner that RCV wouldn't warranty if it was their product =).

I think they make a great product. I sincerely miss my PR44 and wish I had bought an XD custom made the way I wanted. I'm sad to see others have had to pretty much redesign the steering setup to get their hardcore package to fit their needs as well.

 

[SDG]

I have been going back and forth on this issue for 6 months now and I'm probably going to sit on it a while longer. Evo offers their Hi-steer setup but this is still not the right answer to me. I like that they run the ram to the knuckle instead of the tie rod but it sits to low.

Sits too low? How much higher can it possibly go?



The bottom of the tie rod sits 1.5 to 2" higher than the top of the axle tubes... and at that height it can hit the frame at full stuff, which is why some people get the frame notched. How is that possibly too low?



And if you are referring to the ram, it's mounted on the high side of the axle tube, on 40s that puts the skid about 17" off the ground.

How much higher could these components possibly be mounted?



For reference, here is a purpose built jimmys buggy with full hydro used for ultra 4 racing, and surprisingly it doesn't look to be sitting and higher that the tie rod on a high steer hydro assist setup

 

[RSQCON]

SDG I get what your saying. Using your setup the way to raise the ram would be to flip it and mount it to the tie rod. If you did this you could raise the ram. Either way I'll be going with a double sheer set of arms.

 

[SDG]

SDG I get what your saying. Using your setup the way to raise the ram would be to flip it and mount it to the tie rod. If you did this you could raise the ram. Either way I'll be going with a double sheer set of arms.

My only question is why does it need to be raised?

I'm not an engineer but riddle me this...

How is pushing on a flexible rod which is hopefully staying rigid while holding two rotating masses subject to differential loads even remotely close to as robust as pushing on a forged piece of iron which is connected to a rod pushing or pulling that same load in the optimal geometry? Couple that with a skid plate to protect the ram, and I am back to the question of why? Higher sure, stronger, NO.

 

[rockwell]

Thanks! Can you point me in the direction of the custom steer arms?

I had Fusion 4x4 make me a 7075 tie rod with custom bent Rare Parts ends (the ends on the Currie), but due to other issues and troubleshooting I've yet to wheel it so I can't report. I never damaged his tie rod on my PR44 with a few seasons of wheeing.

I made some rather large troubleshooting efforts this winter, and theoretically I've addressed every possible death wobble cause except replacing the Dynatrac 60 balljoints which have less than 4k miles on them. I've even re-built the hubs with new bearings as I was measuring excessive run out. The classic trouble shooting tests indicate my problem isn't the ball joints, but it still existed after the first round of troubleshooting and replacements last fall. I'm specifically avoiding putting the ram on until I know the death wobble is gone when going over our local bumpy loads at low speeds. I don't just want to mask it!

For those thinking you can just buy an off the shelf tie rod for this setup... it's shorter than anything I could find for a JK. The only solution I could find for 1/16-1/8" of toe was a custom one.

I've really hijacked the original poster's thread at this point, and for that I apologize!

I had the occasional death wobble too, when the 60/60 was installed everything but the steering box was new, couldn’t find a problem so I threw a damper on. I just received my Fusion 4x4 tie rod, I’ll throw that in and see what kind of room I have to work with to relocate the ram mount up higher I guess. The tie rod looks beefy, my only concern is that it might be floppy with the offset tie rod ends, have you noticed that with yours?

 

[wayoflife]

I have to say that I'm surprised to hear that there are people on here who've been having problems with their Hard Core axles. We've literally had Moby's ProRock 60 front axle since 2009 and have racked up well over 150,000 on it. Like most of you, our axle came with the standard tie-rod which is far from anything to write home about but then, just like everything else on Moby, we quickly upgraded to the EVO high steer setup with PSC ram assist. Other than changing out the gear oil, brake pads and the upper control arm joints as a part of routine maintenance, everything else on it is still pretty much what we got from Dynatrac. Of all the things we have on Moby, our ProRock 60 front axle has been and still is one of the best built and most reliable aftermarket part we've installed.

 

[Dynatrac]

Last summer I installed one of Dynatracs hard core axle sets. The front came with the hydro assist ram mount integrated into the axle housing below the track mount, directly behind the tie rod. This is lower than a lot of the other mounts I’ve seen while searching and seems like it won’t have much protection from the rocks, but I could be over thinking this. Anybody else install a ram on a hardcore and have any issues/concerns?
Someone is going to say to pick better lines, trails can be pretty tight around here and the better lines are called ‘go-arounds’ and those aren’t any fun.

There are quite a few off-shoots on this post, but we want to address some questions that Rockwell had in the original post. The Hard Core ProRock 60/60 Axle Set was designed as a value-priced option to help many people step up to the strength and durability of Dynatrac 60 axles.

A JK can be pretty complicated with all of the possible suspension systems and other modifications that are possible. To keep costs down, we designed the package to meet the needs of MOST JK customers. That meant keeping other vehicle modifications to a minimum, and drove the location of the tie rod, drag link and ram assist mount. That ram-assist mount is a feature that other axle sets in this price range don’t even offer. We worked for quite a while to determine the optimum placement for proper geometry that did not require other modifications to the JK. With our drag link placement, the ram mount on the axle is in the optimum place.

Yes, there are other locations possible for the tie rod, drag link and ram assist, and we can do pretty much anything that a customer desires if they order a custom axle. Or, as others on this thread commented, our ProRock XD60 with the 1550LT wheel ends move these mounts up quite a bit higher.

We also want to address some of the comments about the ProRock 60…we didn’t take anything away from the ProRock 60 when we made it part of the Hard Core Axle Set. But we have added other axle sets – the Hard Core Plus and the Elite – which come with our ProRock XD60 front axle. This front axle with the 1550LT wheel ends provide quite a few additional benefits that just weren’t possible previously.

At the end of the day, we want to offer all of our customers options that work best for them. We created our axle sets to make it as easy and as affordable as it can be.

 

[Jkzinger]

There are quite a few off-shoots on this post, but we want to address some questions that Rockwell had in the original post. The Hard Core ProRock 60/60 Axle Set was designed as a value-priced option to help many people step up to the strength and durability of Dynatrac 60 axles.

A JK can be pretty complicated with all of the possible suspension systems and other modifications that are possible. To keep costs down, we designed the package to meet the needs of MOST JK customers. That meant keeping other vehicle modifications to a minimum, and drove the location of the tie rod, drag link and ram assist mount. That ram-assist mount is a feature that other axle sets in this price range don’t even offer. We worked for quite a while to determine the optimum placement for proper geometry that did not require other modifications to the JK. With our drag link placement, the ram mount on the axle is in the optimum place.

Yes, there are other locations possible for the tie rod, drag link and ram assist, and we can do pretty much anything that a customer desires if they order a custom axle. Or, as others on this thread commented, our ProRock XD60 with the 1550LT wheel ends move these mounts up quite a bit higher.

We also want to address some of the comments about the ProRock 60…we didn’t take anything away from the ProRock 60 when we made it part of the Hard Core Axle Set. But we have added other axle sets – the Hard Core Plus and the Elite – which come with our ProRock XD60 front axle. This front axle with the 1550LT wheel ends provide quite a few additional benefits that just weren’t possible previously.

At the end of the day, we want to offer all of our customers options that work best for them. We created our axle sets to make it as easy and as affordable as it can be.

Thanks for the reply! Any thoughts also on the tie rod supplied? It is a really poor quality compared to the rest of the axles. I slipped off a rock and the tie rod bent really easy and also bent back with not a lot of persuasion. Other than that my rig drives awesome with the axles both on and off road.


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[wayoflife]

Thanks for the reply! Any thoughts also on the tie rod supplied? It is a really poor quality compared to the rest of the axles. I slipped off a rock and the tie rod bent really easy and also bent back with not a lot of persuasion. Other than that my rig drives awesome with the axles both on and off road.

I'm sure Dynatrac will correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that the standard tie-rod provided with a ProRock 60 is just a standard OE tie-rod made for a RAM truck.

 

[Buster3479]

A JK can be pretty complicated with all of the possible suspension systems and other modifications that are possible. To keep costs down, we designed the package to meet the needs of MOST JK customers. That meant keeping other vehicle modifications to a minimum, and drove the location of the tie rod, drag link and ram assist mount. That ram-assist mount is a feature that other axle sets in this price range don’t even offer. We worked for quite a while to determine the optimum placement for proper geometry that did not require other modifications to the JK. With our drag link placement, the ram mount on the axle is in the optimum place.

Well, you offer it, but in the worst possible location for anyone who wheels. No better than not offering it. Perhaps this is the optimum location for someone who wants to bolt on a ram on tons and never offroads, you know all the folks who fork out dollars for 60's

We also want to address some of the comments about the ProRock 60…we didn’t take anything away from the ProRock 60 when we made it part of the Hard Core Axle Set. But we have added other axle sets – the Hard Core Plus and the Elite – which come with our ProRock XD60 front axle. This front axle with the 1550LT wheel ends provide quite a few additional benefits that just weren’t possible previously.

Then why do I have one fill port, and can't follow the instructions for an oil change for the updated dual sump design? If I ordered a standalone front 60 today, would that be the case?

Can one even buy a Pro-60 rear with the low clearance design separately?

At the end of the day, we want to offer all of our customers options that work best for them. We created our axle sets to make it as easy and as affordable as it can be.

Easy, affordable. Not good. You did what you set out to do.

Unfortunately several of us should have ordered custom built axles, expecting that we'd get the same Dynatrac design considerations we're used to as past customers. Some of these seem like minor things, but when you spend over 12K hard earned dollars, and have to wait a month past the promised time, they stick with you.

I was talked out of buying a custom XD60 front by the primary sales guy, who assured me I'd be getting more for my money with this package, and that it would meet my needs and exceed my expectations. They did not, I assure you. I'm also now stuck with axles I'm disappointed in. Nobody even remotely local will spend that kind of coin to recoup any value. Will you offer substantial trade credit toward a set of custom axles from a dissatisfied customer?

 

[Dynatrac]

Well, you offer it, but in the worst possible location for anyone who wheels. No better than not offering it. Perhaps this is the optimum location for someone who wants to bolt on a ram on tons and never offroads, you know all the folks who fork out dollars for 60's

Then why do I have one fill port, and can't follow the instructions for an oil change for the updated dual sump design? If I ordered a standalone front 60 today, would that be the case?

Can one even buy a Pro-60 rear with the low clearance design separately?

Easy, affordable. Not good. You did what you set out to do.

Unfortunately several of us should have ordered custom built axles, expecting that we'd get the same Dynatrac design considerations we're used to as past customers. Some of these seem like minor things, but when you spend over 12K hard earned dollars, and have to wait a month past the promised time, they stick with you.

I was talked out of buying a custom XD60 front by the primary sales guy, who assured me I'd be getting more for my money with this package, and that it would meet my needs and exceed my expectations. They did not, I assure you. I'm also now stuck with axles I'm disappointed in. Nobody even remotely local will spend that kind of coin to recoup any value. Will you offer substantial trade credit toward a set of custom axles from a dissatisfied customer?

Buster3479 -- The dual fill is not necessary in a JK application. You get a lot for your money with the Hard Core package; there's no better value in the industry. Clearly you are an unhappy customer. Luckily, we don't have very many unhappy customers, but that still bums out out. Please call us and we'll see what we can do to help you work through your problems.

 

[Dynatrac]

Thanks for the reply! Any thoughts also on the tie rod supplied? It is a really poor quality compared to the rest of the axles. I slipped off a rock and the tie rod bent really easy and also bent back with not a lot of persuasion. Other than that my rig drives awesome with the axles both on and off road.


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The tie rod that we supply with the Hard Core axle set is a custom unit that we have manufactured for more than 10 years. It is not a factory tie rod from any application, and it stronger than the factory JK tie rod. The challenge with tie rods is that if you make them "too strong" -- meaning higher tinsel strength -- they will actually break instead of bend. And it is possible to make the tie rod stronger than the tie-rod ends. Out on the trail, it is easier to bend a tie rod back into place than it is to fabricate a new tie rod or make-shift tie-rod end.

That said, there are other aftermarket tie rods available for people who want to experiment. And while it doesn't necessarily help you, for those who are still axle shopping, if tie rod position is extremely important, then the Hard Core Plus or Elite axle sets that include an XD60 axle set are the way to go.

 

[MTG]

How about you just pick better lines and stop running into shit with the front of your jeep? :idontknow:


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[Jkzinger]

How about you just pick better lines and stop running into shit with the front of your jeep? :idontknow:


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And here comes the 1st dickhead. I knew you guys would come out eventually.


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[Buster3479]

And here comes the 1st dickhead. I knew you guys would come out eventually.


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jkzinger, I wouldn't say that. MTG likely has no idea how low the tie rod actually sits in this package, or how much lower the ram is designed to sit. He couldn't possibly know the amount of available lines that used to clear a PR44 with a flip kit and raised knuckles that now directly hit the tie rod on the hardcore package 60's when running the same trails. Nobody could unless they made that jump first hand. The capability lost astounded me the first trip out.

You have to realize that people who bought a separate PR60 front bought an axle that was most likely set up for wheeling, then customized it further. According to Dynatrac above, hardcore package design choices were made to minimize the change required to install on a JK, and maximize the affordability. They never said they were optimized for high clearance desiring wheelers.

On a separate note, it surprised me to learn in this thread that I'm not the only person who introduced death wobble into their rig by adding these axles. I refuse to put on a stabilizer (ram in my case), until I eliminate it. Dynatrac has been very helpful on the phone over the last year trying to troubleshoot it, but the results haven't come to fruition yet.

 

[WJCO]

Buster3479 -- Clearly you are an unhappy customer. Luckily, we don't have very many unhappy customers, but that still bums out out. Please call us and we'll see what we can do to help you work through your problems.

According to Dynatrac above, hardcore package design choices were made to minimize the change required to install on a JK, and maximize the affordability. They never said they were optimized for high clearance desiring wheelers.
On a separate note, it surprised me to learn in this thread that I'm not the only person who introduced death wobble into their rig by adding these axles. I refuse to put on a stabilizer (ram in my case), until I eliminate it. Dynatrac has been very helpful on the phone over the last year trying to troubleshoot it, but the results haven't come to fruition yet.

Sounds like Dynatrac is indeed intent on helping you through this and I hope they do, regardless of the final outcome. They really do have superb customer service.