Running 37s on a stock dana 30 axle

[Spudcannons]

Good question and the answer is simple. It's all your fault... Just kidding.

The concept of a long arm lift and a coil over design appeal to me. I have read a bit about them and feel that they are worth the benefits. That is a whole morning discussion, right? (And I am typing from an iPhone.)

So when I watched your videos and see how Moby goes over the obstacles so much more effectively that the other vehicles (I am sure driver skill is part of it) I feel that the long arms and the coil overs have a lot to do with it. That and 40 inch tires, which I would upgrade to when I do the axle Prorock 44 upgrade.

The goal is to upgrade only once, if possible. I figure a JKUR with the Dana 44's already in place is good for now for the regearing, right?

Any other thoughts?

You want a PR60 up front with 40s. 5.38 gears are too small in a D44. Get the 4.10 tow package.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

LOL!! Just so that it's clear, long arms WILL NOT give you more flex. They will simply correct your suspension geometry when lifted 3.5" or more and will offer a better ride ON PAVEMENT or when bombing through the desert. Also, not all coil overs offer the same amount of flex or can be set to a lower ride height. Moby is running an EVO DTD and that can actually be run on factory length arms - in fact, that's how we were running it originally. Moby is also clearing his 40's with just 3.5" of lift as the DTD's offer a MUCH LOWER ride height than any of it's competitors AND offers 14" of true vertical travel - this too is MORE than any of its competitors. In fact, if you were to get more, your drivelines would bind - ask me how I know. The point I'm trying to make here is that just because you have long arms and coil overs doesn't mean you'll have the same advantage that a Jeep like Moby will have.

I hate to say it but unless you're willing to spend a lot more right out of the box, you'll most likely end up having to upgrade more than once. If it were me, I would plan on at least going in the right direction to minimize the amount of upgrades you will need to make.

I understood that the long arm does not add flex. My concern was restoring the geometry for better road handling and for bombing through the desert (where I live). I understand that the RK shocks allow 12 inches of travel, correct?

So this is where new guys like me get frustrated. I check the EVO MFG website and it is not clear at all. I just do not understand how the "double throw down" system works and where it incorporates into a lift kit. I am just not interested in "budget" boosts and lifts, but am ready to put some serious money to upgrade my JK correctly.

So I go to my local shop and they push the products that give their sales people more commission. Then I go to my neighbors and friends and they can't afford what I am trying to do so they have limited experience. And finally the shops that seem to know what they are doing are more than 8 hours away.

Really, there is limited info out there.

So now I am left lost. Fuck.

Any suggestions are appreciated. Thank you Eddie for all of your help.

 

[MedixJK]

I feel that the long arms and the coil overs have a lot to do with it. That and 40 inch tires,

Fwiw, the long arm kit will have no say-so in the amount of flex/droop. Also, 40s on a d44/pr44 are going to be a bit much, then your back in the same boat as you were with 37s on a d30.

Edit: annnnd im late.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

Fwiw, the long arm kit will have no say-so in the amount of flex/droop. Also, 40s on a d44/pr44 are going to be a bit much, then your back in the same boat as you were with 37s on a d30.

Edit: annnnd im late.

Medic,

Ha ha ha.... That was funny. I had to really stifle my laugh as I am in a courtroom right now.

Thank you for your willingness to help. My apologies for typing so slow on my IPhone.

So you would go with Dana Prorock 60's for the 40's?

 

[Spudcannons]

Medic,

Ha ha ha.... That was funny. I had to really stifle my laugh as I am in a courtroom right now.

Thank you for your willingness to help. My apologies for typing so slow on my IPhone.

So you would go with Dana Prorock 60's for the 40's?

Like I said earlier PR60. Full float rear would be better for 40's than a semi.

 

[bonedaddy]

i feel the same way sometime man...

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

i feel the same way sometime man...

Thanks brother.

 

[MedixJK]

Medic,

Ha ha ha.... That was funny. I had to really stifle my laugh as I am in a courtroom right now.

Thank you for your willingness to help. My apologies for typing so slow on my IPhone.

So you would go with Dana Prorock 60's for the 40's?

Lol no sweat. Most would recommend 60s for a 40" tire. And your not lost, your in the right spot, if you take the given advice.

You should really stick to one of two options i think...

Buy a quality lift and run a 35" or less tire. At least the d30 will have a better chance.

Or, i would save to build it ready for 40s from the get go. Skipping a budget boost and buying lifts/axles everytime you switch tire sizes is going to kill your wallet. Literally. 37s is generally where the build starts to tip the scale so to speak. To do it right is a whole new ball game.

 

[bonedaddy]

Thanks brother.

and just when I think i have figured something out - bam! i get another question or read another thread and it contradicts what I "thought" I knew... never ending cycle... but hey, thats the WAYALIFE and why we are all here - to learn what we don't know and educate folks with what we do...

i just plan on asking a lot of questions - so be prepared WAL!

- Donnie

 

[wayoflife]

I understood that the long arm does not add flex. My concern was restoring the geometry for better road handling and for bombing through the desert (where I live). I understand that the RK shocks allow 12 inches of travel, correct?

12" of shock travel is NOT the same thing as 12" of vertical travel. That being said, I haven't had a chance to cycle a RK long arm kit with coil overs so I couldn't tell you for sure what it would actually yield but, I have done this with a Rebel coil over kit and found that it only yielded about 9" of true vertical travel with its 14" coil overs. See where I'm going with this?

So this is where new guys like me get frustrated. I check the EVO MFG website and it is not clear at all. I just do not understand how the "double throw down" system works and where it incorporates into a lift kit. I am just not interested in "budget" boosts and lifts, but am ready to put some serious money to upgrade my JK correctly.

Yup, the EVO website sucks and they do a piss poor job of explaining their products. It really is a shame because they really make great products that I think more people would buy if they could only understand what they see and actually need.

Regarding the DTD, this is their premier coil over kit that allows you to run just coil overs or run them with an additional set of triple bypass shocks. The front kit just comes with new towers that would replace your factory spring bucket/shock tower and in the rear, you would need to get their EVO lever system and a few standard suspension system components (like drag link flip, track bar relocation brackets, longer brake lines, etc) to make it work. You CAN run this with just factory length arms and again, if you need to save money, you can do this with JUST the coil overs. IF you wish to upgrade in the future, you can add the triple bypasses at that time and without having to replace anything. Does this help?

So I go to my local shop and they push the products that give their sales people more commission. Then I go to my neighbors and friends and they can't afford what I am trying to do so they have limited experience. And finally the shops that seem to know what they are doing are more than 8 hours away.

Really, there is limited info out there.

So now I am left lost. Fuck.

Any suggestions are appreciated. Thank you Eddie for all of your help.

Totally understand your frustration. What I would start off with is your budget that you have to work with. From there, you can plan a route to get to where you want to be. This will help you to make educated purchase with as few replacement as possible.

What I can tell you is that having run a 3-link in the past, I'm not a fan of them as if it breaks, you'd be left high and dry. There's a real benefit in the power of redundancy and I have personally broken a control arm and was still able to run the entire Rubicon trail and then some with just 3 remaining links. What I can also tell you is that having tested out a myriad of joints, I personally prefer Johnny Joints, Uniballs and even factory clevite bonded rubber over most other joints.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

12" of shock travel is NOT the same thing as 12" of vertical travel. That being said, I haven't had a chance to cycle a RK long arm kit with coil overs so I couldn't tell you for sure what it would actually yield but, I have done this with a Rebel coil over kit and found that it only yielded about 9" of true vertical travel with its 14" coil overs. See where I'm going with this?

Regarding the DTD, this is their premier coil over kit that allows you to run just coil overs or run them with an additional set of triple bypass shocks. The front kit just comes with new towers that would replace your factory spring bucket/shock tower and in the rear, you would need to get their EVO lever system and a few standard suspension system components (like drag link flip, track bar relocation brackets, longer brake lines, etc) to make it work. You CAN run this with just factory length arms and again, if you need to save money, you can do this with JUST the coil overs. IF you wish to upgrade in the future, you can add the triple bypasses at that time and without having to replace anything. Does this help?

Totally understand your frustration. What I would start off with is your budget that you have to work with.

What I can tell you is that having run a 3-link in the past, I'm not a fan of them as if it breaks, you'd be left high and dry. There's a real benefit in the power of redundancy and I have personally broken a control arm and was still able to run the entire Rubicon trail and then some with just 3 remaining links. What I can also tell you is that having tested out a myriad of joints, I personally prefer Johnny Joints, Uniballs and even factory clevite bonded rubber over most other joints.

I think I get what you are saying in the way of travel. Yes, I get that shock travel does not equal wheel travel, but how can I figure out what the travel will be? Are you saying that it could be less than 12 inches? Could it be more? What other factors should I look at?

In regards to the DTD, I am not entirely sure I understand. Let me ask this: Which kits would you recommend to replicate what the RK kit does (or even better for that matter)?

I have a budget in mind of $15,000. However, I could look at $20,000 if I could justify a significant cost savings and overcome the law of diminishing returns. I just cannot afford more than $20k, I want to stay married. ;-) How much does it cost to get to the rigs I see on your videos? (Not EVO1 of course).

Which control arm did you break? Did breaking one arm cause more damage to the other components on that day?

As for the long arm vs short arm discussion, are you saying that the short arm will absorb the same as a long arm?

And finally, which shop would you recommend to do the work with the budget I have in mind?

Forgive my ignorance and please do not take my questions as argumentative. I really appreciate all of your help.

I also thank you all.

 

[TFD]

Is it worth re gearing a Dana 44 with 35s for moderate rock crawling? I'm starting to think I should be saving for a pro rock before I re gear.

 

[MR.Ty]

Is it worth re gearing a Dana 44 with 35s for moderate rock crawling? I'm starting to think I should be saving for a pro rock before I re gear.

I felt it was worth it. I went to 4.88s and overall I'm very happy with it.

 

[cozdude]

Currently running slabs and toyos on my stock d30. No gussets. Been driving it like this for the last month. Im not even gonna put any money into the 30. Should be getting a prorock44 in the next couple months

you should at least spend the 50$ on gussets and get them welded on just for safety purposes greg :yup:

 

[CREEPR]

you should at least spend the 50$ on gussets and get them welded on just for safety purposes greg :yup:

Or truss and gusset... If you can weld that is an easy 200$ that will keep that thirty going a little longer.

 

[MR.Ty]

Or truss and gusset... If you can weld that is an easy 200$ that will keep that thirty going a little longer.

I'd rather not waste money on a truss that won't prevent the internals from breaking.....

 

[CREEPR]

I'd rather not waste money on a truss that won't prevent the internals from breaking.....

True. That's more dependant on your right foot and the skinny pedal.

 

[cozdude]

Or truss and gusset... If you can weld that is an easy 200$ that will keep that thirty going a little longer.

Yea no. Gussets are all you really need. A truss will not prevent your axle bending at the tubes and the internals taking a shit on you.

 

[wayoflife]

I think I get what you are saying in the way of travel. Yes, I get that shock travel does not equal wheel travel, but how can I figure out what the travel will be? Are you saying that it could be less than 12 inches? Could it be more? What other factors should I look at?

What I'm saying is that it could definitely be less but not likely more. EVO is able to get more due to their proprietary front DTD mounts that angle back and rear EVO lever which actually utilizes only 8" coil overs to achieve 14" of true vertical travel. I should note that they still do this with 4-links too.

In regards to the DTD, I am not entirely sure I understand. Let me ask this: Which kits would you recommend to replicate what the RK kit does (or even better for that matter)?

I guess I first need to know what you think the RK kit does before I could recommend something that can replicate it. As far as better goes, there's nothing out there that'll perform better than an EVO DTD but of course, it comes at a price.

I have a budget in mind of $15,000. However, I could look at $20,000 if I could justify a significant cost savings and overcome the law of diminishing returns. I just cannot afford more than $20k, I want to stay married. ;-) How much does it cost to get to the rigs I see on your videos? (Not EVO1 of course).

LOL!! I think you need to understand that EVO 1 is running off the shelf DTD components and Moby is running the same thing. What makes EVO 1 different is all the frame/cage, engine, transmission, transfer case, placement of everything, lack of a computer and the significant trimming of weight it has. That being said, there are ways you can ramp up to what Moby has which is a street legal and street comfortable ride. Again, you can build your way to this point without having to buy things twice. You just need to know what your end game will be and work from there.

Which control arm did you break? Did breaking one arm cause more damage to the other components on that day?

Actually, I did't break an arm so much as I broke a factory control arm mount on my factory rear axle twice and once up front as well. I just pulled the arm and kept on going.

As for the long arm vs short arm discussion, are you saying that the short arm will absorb the same as a long arm?

First off, factory length arms are NOT short. TJ arms were short and by comparison, JK factory arms are quite long and quite strong. Second, they don't so much as "absorb" anything but an arm that has a flatter angle will have less of an arc to travel. Long arms will restore the geometry of your control arms back to stock or closer to it ONLY IF you are running a tall lift. Ideally, you want a LOW stance as that will reduce your center of gravity and with 37's, you only really need about 3.5" of lift at most. At this height, you will totally be fine with stock length arms - trust me, I have done it and know plenty of people who still do it.

And finally, which shop would you recommend to do the work with the budget I have in mind?

Honestly, I don't know but I might recommend that you talk to MTG here on the forum as he uses a shop in Reno that has done him well.

Forgive my ignorance and please do not take my questions as argumentative. I really appreciate all of your help.

I also thank you all.

It's all good and I hope I can be of some help. All I can offer is what I know.

 

[wayoflife]

True. That's more dependant on your right foot and the skinny pedal.

I can only assume you live east of the rockies.