Metal cloak coils?

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
Fair point, I have and agree. This said, If comparing similar suspension designs (coil-sprung to coil-sprung) I'm not so sure. I formed this opinion after riding in two JKUs with the same springs (brand and length). One had FOX and the other... well I don't remember :idontknow:... but I remember getting out of the FOX Jeep and thinking to myself, "damn I'm not getting those things". They felt extremely harsh. Every bump was like being hit in the a$$ with a hammer. To your point(s) though they had different bumpers, different tires, and I think different arms too. So there could have been more at play.

And, as you even pointed out, "tire pressure has a massive impact too". I would even say that a Range C vs. a Range E makes a big difference. I'm not saying that shocks don't make a difference, just that coils make a bigger difference in the ride quality of your suspension.
 

hinrichs

Caught the Bug
I can say that when i switched from my teraflex coils over to the plush rides, and nothing else was changed, same 5100 shocks (but longer fronts and rockstar skids out back), the ride was a lot better. It takes bumps a lot smoother and less harsh so I beleive springs are a very big part of the "ride quality". The teraflex were not bad at all for when I started out, but as I progressed I knew I "wanted" something better.
 

bl17z90

New member
So based on what I have read here is what I make of it. My AEV coils are progressive rate and if I load enough gear in my Jeep the ride quality won't be as good as when its unloaded? Anyone know about how much weight it takes to do this?
 
I have the metalcloak lift with coils and love them, they ride great

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wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
I can say that when i switched from my teraflex coils over to the plush rides, and nothing else was changed, same 5100 shocks (but longer fronts and rockstar skids out back), the ride was a lot better. It takes bumps a lot smoother and less harsh so I beleive springs are a very big part of the "ride quality". The teraflex were not bad at all for when I started out, but as I progressed I knew I "wanted" something better.

I've run both as well and with a set of Elkas and totally agree.

So based on what I have read here is what I make of it. My AEV coils are progressive rate and if I load enough gear in my Jeep the ride quality won't be as good as when its unloaded? Anyone know about how much weight it takes to do this?

Hard to say for sure. What I can tell you is that most companies design their products with your Jeep as is in mind. And really, I can't say I blame them as it would be impossible to take every single setup you could have in to account.

I have the metalcloak lift with coils and love them, they ride great

And again, that's all that should matter. Nothing would suck more than buying something that you hated. :yup:
 

Cjacks95

Banned
3" plush rides on 37s

Any noticeable sag yet? I feel like I have more weight then you do tho ImageUploadedByWAYALIFE1389305632.887210.jpg
Smittybilt xrc fender
Smittybilt src front bumper
and a decently heavy rear bumper (off brand) and tire carrier plus I have a winch to throw on

Anyways I'm hearing they're nice still no bad reviews on them! But I have heard amazing reviews for the plush coils
 
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wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
As you can see, the MC springs are properly engineered (appear to be) to have the initial sag built into them, unlike the RK coils. Thats the way it should be done. A single rate spring of the same rate as the MC would be shorter than the MC.

LOL!! Sorry, I have no idea what you just said. What exactly are you seeing here and can actually tell that something is properly engineered? How exactly does this make it better?
 

NFRs2000NYC

Caught the Bug
LOL!! Sorry, I have no idea what you just said. What exactly are you seeing here and can actually tell that something is properly engineered? How exactly does this make it better?

Im basing it solely off the photo (and not pro MC per se, just using them as an example since they are the topic at hand.)

As stated earlier, a dual rate coil will generally have less "road rate" coils than a single rate coil (like an evo.) For a dual rate coil (lets assume the road rate on a dual and a single have the same physical spring rate) to be equal to in ride feel to a single rate, it must be physically taller.

If we take a 5000lbs JKU and two sets of coils...a dual and a single...and lets assume we get 1.5" of compression at rest under that 5000lbs....the dual rate coil will lose more "meat" than the single rate coil, since it has less road rate to begin with....unless the 1.5" was engineered into the coil from the get go, resulting in a taller coil (as pictured.)

So, if the above photo is truly a 2.5" coil on both fronts, you can tell that the MC coil has the "initial sag" built into the coil, which would eliminate the problem you correctly described in other dual rate threads (that dual rates generally ride harsher because they compress under load and lose a bunch of their "road rate."


P.S. I mispoke by saying they are properly engineered...I have no idea if they are or not, and you are correct, I cant tell from the photo. I guess my point would be that for a dual rate to work as it should and equal the ride of a single rate, the coil must be taller, and it *looks* like MC built the sag into the coil, thus, making it ride correctly (effectively like a single rate.) Obviously in this particular case, I am speculating since I don't know the specifics of the spring nor have I ever ridden in a rig equipped with them.
 
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wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
You did see the diagram that specifically shows the MC coils are purposefully designed to ride with the top portion of the coil running solid, right? In other words, the top portion offers ZERO spring rate once installed and 100% of your ride is on the lower firm side - kinda like a coil with a budget boost spacer on top. The ONLY PURPOSE of the upper coil is to extend when drooping.
 

NFRs2000NYC

Caught the Bug
You did see the diagram that specifically shows the MC coils are purposefully designed to ride with the top portion of the coil running solid, right? In other words, the top portion offers ZERO spring rate once installed and 100% of your ride is on the lower firm side. The ONLY PURPOSE of the upper coil is to extend when drooping.

I edited my post above, but again, you are correct in your statement (never disagreed.) Looking at the photo you see the coils (flex section) not touching. Once installed, they should be touching right? That means the weight of the JKU would need to sag the flex section first, thus, using up the initial sag only in the flex section. The RK coils don't have enough of the flex coils to absorb the initial sag, which means they would need to cut into the road rate sag (thus giving an inaccurate ride height and losing compression "meat")...

Again, all this is conjecture since it would be impossible for me to calculate anything without knowing the rates of all the spring rates. I like to think of dual rate coils as the poor man's coilover.
 

olram30

Not That Kind of Engineer
Seems like you'd lose up travel with all those dead rate coils.

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TheStick

Member
You did see the diagram that specifically shows the MC coils are purposefully designed to ride with the top portion of the coil running solid, right? In other words, the top portion offers ZERO spring rate once installed and 100% of your ride is on the lower firm side - kinda like a coil with a budget boost spacer on top. The ONLY PURPOSE of the upper coil is to extend when drooping.

But if it does add droop you're adding total flex right? So this is difference than adding a puck.

Maybe I'm missing something.
 

TheStick

Member
Seems like you'd lose up travel with all those dead rate coils.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using WAYALIFE mobile app

I think adds to my previous question. I've never heard of a coil limiting up travel. So more droop would seem more flex to me. Who fully compresses a coil before the shock or bump stops?
 

NFRs2000NYC

Caught the Bug
But if it does add droop you're adding total flex right? So this is difference than adding a puck.

Maybe I'm missing something.

Not really...the droop is technically done by the shock...the flex coil will just keep it nicely seated. Having said that, these coils will allow you to run a slightly longer shock which would then yield a little more droop/flex.
 
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NFRs2000NYC

Caught the Bug
Seems like you'd lose up travel with all those dead rate coils.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using WAYALIFE mobile app

Possible but improbable. As far as I understand it, this would only be the case if the coil lead pipes (turns solid) before your shock fully compresses/hit bumpstops. If you still have meat on the coil to compress, you should not have any uptravel issues.
 

TheStick

Member
Not really...the droop is technically done by the shock...the flex coil will just keep it nicely seated. Having said that, these coils will allow you to run a slightly longer shock which would then yield a little more droop/flex.

Good point and I phrased that wrong. But you still need a coil that can properly expand for the given shock length or it could become unseated.

Correct?

Just an FYI, these are on my short list is why I'm asking. I took a ride in a JK with this setup and loved it. But it did have the whole six pack shock setup which I would not be going with.
 

NFRs2000NYC

Caught the Bug
Good point and I phrased that wrong. But you still need a coil that can properly expand for the given shock length or it could become unseated.

Correct?

Just an FYI, these are on my short list is why I'm asking. I took a ride in a JK with this setup and loved it. But it did have the whole six pack shock setup which I would not be going with.

Honestly, that's all that matters. If you rode in it and liked it, then by all means. From what I gathered doing research, they make a fine product.
 
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