Sold on Long Arms...until I talked to ORE

[geberhard]

Tire size doesn't determine the type of arms you need.

Agreed 100%.

To the OP, also the type of wheeling you do will help determine what suspension you will need, so I gotta disagree with Drew.

I disagree with Eddie's point somewhat and will chalk this as my $.02 cents. Long arms will provide you more wheel travel and articulation off-road with the proper geometry. I.e. short arm on 37's vs long arm with 37's. You will also experience less "jacking" force with the proper long arm geometry vs a short arm (i.e. front wheel jacking). I agree and think that 4" plus of lift on a Jk is pretty freaking tall.

 

[WJCO]

Agreed 100%.

To the OP, also the type of wheeling you do will help determine what suspension you will need, so I gotta disagree with Drew.

I disagree with Eddie's point somewhat and will chalk this as my $.02 cents. Long arms will provide you more wheel travel and articulation off-road with the proper geometry. I.e. short arm on 37's vs long arm with 37's. You will also experience less "jacking" force with the proper long arm geometry vs a short arm (i.e. front wheel jacking). I agree and think that 4" plus of lift on a Jk is pretty freaking tall.

I'm really a newbie to offroad systems and products, but how do long arms give more articulation than short arms? I would figure your suspension travel with coils and shocks would be the determining factor rather than the arms?

 

[wayoflife]

I disagree with Eddie's point somewhat and will chalk this as my $.02 cents. Long arms will provide you more wheel travel and articulation off-road with the proper geometry. I.e. short arm on 37's vs long arm with 37's.

You can disagree with me all you want but you'd be wrong. Can't get any more wheel travel than your shocks will allow for.

You will also experience less "jacking" force with the proper long arm geometry vs a short arm (i.e. front wheel jacking). I agree and think that 4" plus of lift on a Jk is pretty freaking tall.

sorry, I'm new to wheeling and don't have a clue as to what "jacking" is. And, being that's the case, I never made mention of it and don't know how you could disagree with me on that. But, you're clearly the expert here and so ill differ to you :yup:

 

[OverlanderJK]

You can disagree with me all you want but you'd be wrong. Can't get any more wheel travel than your shocks will allow for.



sorry, I'm new to wheeling and don't have a clue as to what "jacking" is. And, being that's the case, I never made mention of it and don't know how you could disagree with me on that. But, you're clearly the expert here and so ill differ to you :yup:

I know what jacking is and it has nothing to do with wheel travel.

 

[olram30]

Agreed 100%.

To the OP, also the type of wheeling you do will help determine what suspension you will need, so I gotta disagree with Drew.

I disagree with Eddie's point somewhat and will chalk this as my $.02 cents. Long arms will provide you more wheel travel and articulation off-road with the proper geometry. I.e. short arm on 37's vs long arm with 37's. You will also experience less "jacking" force with the proper long arm geometry vs a short arm (i.e. front wheel jacking). I agree and think that 4" plus of lift on a Jk is pretty freaking tall.

What's " jacking"?
So, let's say I had a bone stock Jeep and put a long arm kit, nothing else. My factory jeep would get more articulation with just long arms? Interesting.

 

[cozdude]

I know what jacking is and it has nothing to do with wheel travel.

At least I'm not the only one that though the same thing :cheesy:

 

[Mike_JK_Houston_711]

Agreed 100%.

To the OP, also the type of wheeling you do will help determine what suspension you will need, so I gotta disagree with Drew.

I disagree with Eddie's point somewhat and will chalk this as my $.02 cents. Long arms will provide you more wheel travel and articulation off-road with the proper geometry. I.e. short arm on 37's vs long arm with 37's. You will also experience less "jacking" force with the proper long arm geometry vs a short arm (i.e. front wheel jacking). I agree and think that 4" plus of lift on a Jk is pretty freaking tall.

I did tell Drew that is was my daily driver with frequent rock crawling trips, and he still confirmed that long arms weren't really all that beneficial with my set-up. I would have to agree with everyone else here, as well as an employee from ORE themselves, that coilovers and necessary adjustments are all that is needed. He could have easily told me "ABSOLUTELY, longs arms and coilovers are exactly what you need. Now give me your credit card!". But he didn't, so I have to think there's something to his logic.

Yes, maybe 4.5" is too high. Still have to determine what I want to do there...

 

[CarolinaJK]

That's what I like about ORE so much. They guide you into buying only what you need.

 

[mastrcruse]

So let me make sure I'm understanding this..

Long arm kit isn't needed because it's a DD but coilovers are? They actually said that?

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

That being said, long arms will NOT give you more flex or perform better off road. What they will do is give you a better ride on pavement or if you like to bomb through the desert.

I agree 100% with this statement. It really depends on what kind of surfaces you plan to drive your JK over.

My question pertains to the "more flex" part. Is there any truth to Long Arms "cleaning up" your suspension which can allow your shocks to fully extend and compress, thereby increasing flex in certain situations? I could be way off and have not seen this in person, only curious if there could be a situation where something about the arms themselves were restricting the full travel of the coil over shock and that by simply switching to long arms, it would allow for more flex.

 

[mastrcruse]

^ this is how it was explained to me. Control arm don't provide you anything but better suspension angles and less bind allowing other suspension competent to perform better if triangulated correctly. These things will also result in better/smoother onroad performance. If not, why does everyone running a DTD kit use long arm kits?

 

[Mike_JK_Houston_711]

So let me make sure I'm understanding this..

Long arm kit isn't needed because it's a DD but coilovers are? They actually said that?

No no no, ORE didn't say anything in my plans were needed, not even the coilovers. Before calling them, I had made up my mind that I wanted to get both Long Arms and Coilovers in stages and wanted their input on what to do first...ORE simply told me that with 37's, I would benefit more from coilovers and not so much from long arms. They weren't telling me I needed coilovers. Sorry if my other post was confusing at all.

 

[MR.Ty]

I'd still like to know what the hell "jacking" is.

 

[WJCO]

I'd still like to know what the hell "jacking" is.

Google Images may be a good resource...........or maybe not. You may not want to see some of those pictures.

 

[mastrcruse]

No no no, ORE didn't say anything in my plans were needed, not even the coilovers. Before calling them, I had made up my mind that I wanted to get both Long Arms and Coilovers in stages and wanted their input on what to do first...ORE simply told me that with 37's, I would benefit more from coilovers and not so much from long arms. They weren't telling me I needed coilovers. Sorry if my other post was confusing at all.

Got ya. Been a long day in Boston traffic so was wondering haha.

 

[Hammmerhead]

A little info I found.


The Difference between Short and Long Arm Lift Kits
A short arm lift attaches to the stock control arm mount. As the length of the short arm lift increases, the angle made by the arm and the downward force of gravity becomes smaller. This is the limiting factor for short arm lifts: if the angle of the arm is too extreme, the force being exerted both from and onto the vehicle will become too vertical.
Having more vertical than horizontal force in a suspension does a lot of negative things: for instance, it puts a great deal of stress on the suspension by pushing up on it constantly and ramming it upward with each bump. Also, the engine must work harder to move the vehicle forward or back, because instead of the energy going into pulling the vehicle along the ground, it is attempting to dig down into it.
The shorter arm also means the length of wheel travel available will have a more curved appearance than with a long arm, like so:
Illustration of the long arm vs. short arm curve
It is this motion which gives short arm lifts a bad reputation for being less smooth on pavement. Instead of a gentle up and down movement, the notable curve translates into vertical energy. This energy travels the opposite direction that the vehicle is trying to go and causes rattles and shakes as the suspension battles with physics.
In general, a long arm lift will provide a smoother ride on the road because the wheel travel has a larger radius and is therefore less dramatically curved.
Think of the curve of the planet: it is so large we once thought it to be flat, but a smaller version of the same curve in a bouncy ball is obviously and dramatically bent. The longer, smoother curve of a long arm lift reduces “push back” energy, decreasing jostling and bumping.

 

[cozdude]

A little info I found.


The Difference between Short and Long Arm Lift Kits
A short arm lift attaches to the stock control arm mount. As the length of the short arm lift increases, the angle made by the arm and the downward force of gravity becomes smaller. This is the limiting factor for short arm lifts: if the angle of the arm is too extreme, the force being exerted both from and onto the vehicle will become too vertical.
Having more vertical than horizontal force in a suspension does a lot of negative things: for instance, it puts a great deal of stress on the suspension by pushing up on it constantly and ramming it upward with each bump. Also, the engine must work harder to move the vehicle forward or back, because instead of the energy going into pulling the vehicle along the ground, it is attempting to dig down into it.
The shorter arm also means the length of wheel travel available will have a more curved appearance than with a long arm, like so:
Illustration of the long arm vs. short arm curve
It is this motion which gives short arm lifts a bad reputation for being less smooth on pavement. Instead of a gentle up and down movement, the notable curve translates into vertical energy. This energy travels the opposite direction that the vehicle is trying to go and causes rattles and shakes as the suspension battles with physics.
In general, a long arm lift will provide a smoother ride on the road because the wheel travel has a larger radius and is therefore less dramatically curved.
Think of the curve of the planet: it is so large we once thought it to be flat, but a smaller version of the same curve in a bouncy ball is obviously and dramatically bent. The longer, smoother curve of a long arm lift reduces “push back” energy, decreasing jostling and bumping.


View attachment 209583

You need to remember tho that the arms on a JK are considered more of a mid arm than a short arm. That's why when you see arms marketed as mid arms it's more of a gimmick than anything.

 

[Ddays]

Google Images may be a good resource...........or maybe not. You may not want to see some of those pictures.

LOL - I did just that and this came up. Totally unrelated but these dumbasses looked so fucking stupid that I had to post it.

 

[Ddays]

View attachment 209583

This is true but as Eddie said, your travel is limited by your shock length. Are you gaining enough in the limited arc the arms are moving to really make that much of a difference?

 

[TRLJNKY]

This is true but as Eddie said, your travel is limited by your shock length. If you install shocks with longer travel then you risk unseating your coils, no?

Just need limit straps than